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Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

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Re: Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

#71

Post by btkramer9 »

Layke1123 wrote: post #51
phildenhoff wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that explanation is only about Hydrogen molecules and hydrogen atoms, not Hydrogen vs. Helium. There's a free textbook available here [1] that explains that atomic sizes decrease across the periodic table and increase down. In short, it decreases across a horizontal period because more electrons are in the same orbital shell (really a cloud), increasing the negative nuclear charge of the cloud, which is more…

This seems unintuitive as I would expect one electron by itself to be more closely attracted to a positive nucleus instead of when there are two or more fighting to remain in "orbit". Your definition would make sense to me if you can think of electrons adding to an over all single electrical charge instead of individual electrons, but in that case, I have to ask, what is the original reason a single electron is repul…

My instinctive guess is that it has to do with the spins of two electrons "balancing" each other keeping them closer to the nucleus.

Re: Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

#72

Post by wtallis »

moonbug wrote: post #58
r00fus wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like planned obsolescence.

This class of drive will typically have a design life of 5yrs at 100% duty.

100% duty cycle on the spindle motors, perhaps. But they're definitely not rated for actively performing IO 100% of the time.

Re: Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

#73

Post by colejohnson66 »

r00fus wrote: post #11
abfan1127 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my first thought was what happens when it leaks out?

Sounds like planned obsolescence.

It’s not planned obsolescence to include Helium when the medium requires it. If you want 18 TB, you’re going to need Helium (from what I know), but if you want less, you might not get it. Planned obsolescence is about planning (hence the name) to make a device worse to encourage upgrading. The device going bad after a while simply by its nature just makes the obsolescence aspect an added benefit.

Is it planned obsolescence that alkaline batteries go bad if left unused for a while? That moving parts in a car can wear out? I wouldn’t say it is.

Re: Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

#74

Post by tasty_freeze »

rbanffy wrote: post #23
abfan1127 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my first thought was what happens when it leaks out?

If the internal pressure in the device is lower than one atm, the leakage is easier to contain because it's not helium wanting to go out, but air pushing to come in. Eventually it will happen and the internal drive atmosphere will be compromised to a point it doesn't work anymore. By then, it should be safe enough to open the drive in a clean Helium-filled room and reseal it. Or just read the data, store it someplace…

I'm no physicist, but I don't think diffusion works that way.

Even if the internal pressure is 1% of a standard atmosphere, if the density of helium inside is higher than the density of helium outside, the helium will still "want" to leave the box.

Re: Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

#75

Post by Jouvence »

dragontamer wrote: post #9

This seems to have come out of no where. Helium is an old trick, but MAMR / HAMR (energy assist technology, either microwave or heat) was a big announcement from Seagate and WD. I didn't know Toshiba was also working on the tech.

HAMR/MAMR have been well understood and just on the road to commercial viability since at least 2014 (probably long before, but that is when I came across them). Toshiba being such a small percentage of the disk market makes their later deployment of this stuff easy to understand simply from the standpoint of having a smaller research budget.

A subsequent technology to expect is the separation of magnetic domains into small islands on a non-magnetic substrate, rather than the current approach of applying the magnetic field to regions of a continuous all-magnetic medium. This would be paired with heating, in what I only remember being described as "heated dot magnetic recording".

That was where the technical roadmap for HDDs ended last time I checked. After that I guess platter additions will carry us to the end of the decade.

Re: Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

#77

Post by plutonorm »

sandworm101 wrote: post #5
yummypaint wrote: post #3

This seems like a terrible use of helium from a sustainability perspective. There are some things that helium is truly essential for, like low temperature cryogenics and neutron detection. Our supply is finite and largely tied to natural gas reserves. When helium leaks out it floats into space and is gone forever. Why does the atmosphere in the drive absolutely have to be helium? Why not any other mix of inert gases…

The amount used in these drives is minuscule, akin to a single party balloon. Given these drives are to be used for many years at a time, I'll go after them after I manage to stop all the birthday balloons.

Just use hydrogen for the party balloons

Re: Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

#78

Post by xadhominemx »

pengaru wrote: post #33
yummypaint wrote: post #3

This seems like a terrible use of helium from a sustainability perspective. There are some things that helium is truly essential for, like low temperature cryogenics and neutron detection. Our supply is finite and largely tied to natural gas reserves. When helium leaks out it floats into space and is gone forever. Why does the atmosphere in the drive absolutely have to be helium? Why not any other mix of inert gases…

> Not trying to go full tinfoil hat here, but filling equipment with helium in this way seems like an effective way to cap drive life by time elapsed rather than amount of actual use. Recognizing planned obsolescence is not tinfoil hat territory. It's a rational and predictable commercial practice equivalent to rent-seeking, you're not crazy.

Hard disk drives are a commodity component and the main buyers of He nearline drives are the most sophisticated companies in the world. It’s not a trick dude.

Re: Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

#79

Post by [deleted] »

gibspaulding wrote: post #39
sandworm101 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note this is liquid helium in one operational MRI machine: "Let’s say you have an MRI scanner with the OR76 magnet with the full capacity of 1800 litres of helium. Your system consumes approximately 4% of its helium capacity per month, that sums up to 48% per year (4% 12 = 48%). That means that 864 litres are consumed per year (1800 litres 48% = 864 litres)." https://lbnmedical.com/liquid-helium-in-mri-machine/ That…

> "Let’s say you have an MRI scanner with the OR76 magnet with the full capacity of 1800 litres of helium. Your system consumes approximately 4% of its helium capacity per month, that sums up to 48% per year (4%12 = 48%). That means that 864 litres are consumed per year (1800 litres 48% = 864 litres)." I know this is napkin math so it doesn't really matter, but a 4% loss times 12 months would be 1-(.96^12) = 39%. Unl…

[deleted]

Re: Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

#80

Post by Dylan16807 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #34
FooBarWidget wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A party balloon full of helium is a minuscule amount?

Note this is liquid helium in one operational MRI machine: "Let’s say you have an MRI scanner with the OR76 magnet with the full capacity of 1800 litres of helium. Your system consumes approximately 4% of its helium capacity per month, that sums up to 48% per year (4% 12 = 48%). That means that 864 litres are consumed per year (1800 litres 48% = 864 litres)." https://lbnmedical.com/liquid-helium-in-mri-machine/ That…

> (There are near-zero helium MRI machines, but there are also plenty of older machines in use out there.)

For the purpose of worrying about future supply, we probably want to compare to those. A balloon is a tiny waste compared to an MRI that vents helium willy-nilly, but it's a much larger waste compared to an MRI that gives half a care.

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