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What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

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Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

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Important note: central bank digital currencies are not crypto currrencies. They are not block chains. They are not decentralized. They are not permissionless. I cannot find a record of any CBDC which clearly states that it want's to use any of these technologies. I'd be interested to be proven wrong. Central bank digital currencies are essentially a new hybrid monetary/fiscal policy tool. Historically the Federal re…

This makes no sense. Are you saying that digital currency is a fancy term for a direct deposit? We've had direct deposits for a very long time. My tax refund comes as a direct deposit. The government seems to be able to directly give me money digitially just fine.

You know what's new that hasn't been done before? Your government giving money to me (not a citizen) in an effort to popularize your currency.

If President Xi wants to gift me some digital Yuan to spend how I wish (so the Yuan becomes more accepted outside China).. I say hell, why not?

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

#72
post #14

Important note: central bank digital currencies are not crypto currrencies. They are not block chains. They are not decentralized. They are not permissionless. I cannot find a record of any CBDC which clearly states that it want's to use any of these technologies. I'd be interested to be proven wrong. Central bank digital currencies are essentially a new hybrid monetary/fiscal policy tool. Historically the Federal re…

Important note: bitcoin is a ponzi [1] and not digital gold. Learn how the investment fraud works. [1] https://github.com/openblockchains/bitcoin-ponzi

No Bitcoin is not a Ponzi. A Ponzi scheme has a very particular set of characteristics. Bitcoin is not even a pyramid scheme. It does not require new buyers for its value to increase.

It currently is highly speculative and manic market, possibly a bubble.

The quality of your link speaks for itself, it reads like schizoid scribbles.

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

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Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have deposit in a bank, and that bank has deposit in the central bank. That's the current situation. With CBDC, you can have deposit in the central bank. This is an important difference.

Important to whom? As a private citizen, why would i want this? As a central bank, why would i want this? Which parties benefit from such an arrangement, which to me seems only superficially different from the staus quo? How and why do they benefit?

One less middleman that can only add extra delay and extra fees.

Also, removes part of systemic risk since "digital currency" is held at central bank and not with retail banks, then it decouples transactions/accounts from deposits/lending. Currently, if a major bank fails because of lending issues, there's a push to prop them up since them failing would also cause immense harm to all the businesses who just transact through that bank, if this is decoupled, then the economic system would be a bit more stable during crisis.

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

#74
post #14

Important note: central bank digital currencies are not crypto currrencies. They are not block chains. They are not decentralized. They are not permissionless. I cannot find a record of any CBDC which clearly states that it want's to use any of these technologies. I'd be interested to be proven wrong. Central bank digital currencies are essentially a new hybrid monetary/fiscal policy tool. Historically the Federal re…

Central bank digital currencies can be blockchain based, they can be decentralised etc. In fact, he central banks that I have spoken to would rather have a decentralised currency, because it would mean less work for them. The motivation of a central bank is easy; make sure the currency is liquid, make sure they can use the currency to affect inflation and so forth. Whatever setup gives them the best ability to meet t…

I could see CBDCs using blockchain solely because someone utterly non-technical, at some higher level in the bureaucracy, insisted that they make a blockchain-based cryptocurrency “so as to not get left behind” or “because we need to compete with Bitcoin”.

Clearly neither of those two rationales make any sense whatsoever - and they might even seem like a downright ridiculous suggestion to some readers of this response. If that’s you, then welcome to wild and whacky world of public spending.

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

#75
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Digital currencies allow for full tracking of every transactions and are a privacy nightmare. They allow applying negative interest rate on everybody and they would facilitate neverending hyperinflation (no need to print new bills at great expense). Hence they can't coexist with cash so say goodbye to cash. I don't like where we're going.

I buy pretty much everything with VISA or Paypal. If I want something to be private, I could do it with cash or a cryptocoin. I think it would be nice if govt (via crown-corp or some such) provided an alternative that I can choose to use sometimes. They might have a better privacy-policy than I'm getting from the big companies lol. This might also open up new markets, e.g. micropayments, because govt could choose to…

Cash is doomed to be phased out and Covid has sped this up a lot. Eventually you won’t have the option to use cash.

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Important note: bitcoin is a ponzi [1] and not digital gold. Learn how the investment fraud works. [1] https://github.com/openblockchains/bitcoin-ponzi

No Bitcoin is not a Ponzi. A Ponzi scheme has a very particular set of characteristics. Bitcoin is not even a pyramid scheme. It does not require new buyers for its value to increase. It currently is highly speculative and manic market, possibly a bubble. The quality of your link speaks for itself, it reads like schizoid scribbles.

Uhh.. Where do you think this number that you call "value" comes from?

It comes from the crypto exchanges. The value. Is the latest settled sale. So when someone sets a sell price and someone buys at that btc, is when the value is set.

So yeh. You absolutely need new buyers for its value to increase.

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

#77
The CBDCs started with a great idea: to share the stability and security banks enjoy today with all citizen and retail sector in digital format, as public layer similar to internet, between what we have today (cash) and what the future maybe (web3). At the same time, the way you have right to use cash today (almost) in the way you desire, you should have right and possibility to do so also in the digital world of future.

Today, most of the digital money is actually a private sector coin backed by fiat: you send paypal coin to another person, not real euro, and exchange it via another CC provider service. Cross-borders are order of magnitude more messy. They have similar problems like other stablecoins and cryptocurrencies while a few of their main value added are the solution to the challenges of cryptocurrencies: UX, and security among others. The private sector also has an incentivized and risk-averse view towards the basic right, e.g. inclusion and usage. The covid crisis showed that we cannot leave it to the private sector and banks among others to ensure the financial safety of people. Bank-runs happened because people do not have trust toward private sector, and regulatory actions are reactive at best.

So enter CBDCs. Central banks wanted to provide the benefits while retaining control of money flow in country. Same incentives of old age into the digital world. But the challenge is that by providing a real CB backed currency one disintermediates the banking system. One reason not to break the economy without understanding the effects and the other reason being CBs themselves are not high tech and prefer to piggy back available distribution channels. So, CBs started offering two-layer approaches, which is almost identical to the today‘s financial model, mostly a technological improvement at best. DLTs replace Swifts of the world. Accounts will stay accounts, KYC stays in place, maybe some tools would be given to not require accounts for e.g. One could ask then what‘s the fuss then? So, there is a technological demand to build CBDC, CBs have all incentives for themselves to build it to keep control, banks get to have a modern payment system for themselves, but what would change for the end user? Lower fees? obviously the view is biased towards modern world, e.g. in broken economies any order is better than none, some wallet is better than no bank, etc.

Eventually, CBDCs in the first roll out are an evolution of the current banking system. There is no fuss about it, but rather finally there is enough momentum to align multiple heavy stakeholders on one strategy.

disclaimer: the views are my personal views.

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy is ranked the second after security in a recent survey from ECB, so it is a known demand and design criteria for both sides. CBDC will co-exist with cash for years to come. Fully monitored CBDC will be at a high disadvantage by citizens specially in modern world, while fully private one would not be allowed by CBs due to need for transparency. Here also comes the product builders. We could design a CBDC that…

"privacy" as defined by the grocery store down the street can't see your history of purchases or privacy as in the government doesn't have every detail of every sexual fetish you've ever paid for? The FBI has been stockpiling that for decades. Those are very different things, and from Europe's approach to the GDPR, I think it is the first.

Great point.

The control of privacy should be in the protocol and not in the hands of the authorities, if there is going to be a trust built around it. Otherwise, we have what is there today, without the anonymous cash element.

There are different designs today to address this concern, see e.g. the one from Bank of Canada, as one of the frontiers of privacy for citizen: https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2020/06/staff-analytical-note-20...

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

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Important note: central bank digital currencies are not crypto currrencies. They are not block chains. They are not decentralized. They are not permissionless. I cannot find a record of any CBDC which clearly states that it want's to use any of these technologies. I'd be interested to be proven wrong. Central bank digital currencies are essentially a new hybrid monetary/fiscal policy tool. Historically the Federal re…

> The idea of these new CBDCs is to setup a similar system but where the digital currency could be distributed to individual citizens. I don't think this is the point of CBDC at all. Individual citizens gain nothing with the ability to sell financial assets to the CB, and neither does the CB.

The idea here is about security of money: the money stored in the CB ledger does not lose i ts contractual value in difficult times, as it is garanteed by the central bank.

Compare that to your money in your bank, which is backed at 10% with fiat reserves. If crisis happens and people want to pull their cash out the bank goes bankrupt. Central banks do not go bankrupt, hence your money is always safe.

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

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Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you saying that digital currency is a fancy term for a direct deposit? Basically yes, but specifically only for the case of a direct deposit between the Federal reserve and an individual. That doesn't currently exist. But that's also basically my point. CBDCs are nothing new from an operational or technological perspective which I think is something many people are getting confused about. They are a new thing i…

Fair enough. I guess it feels almost unbelievable that all this fuss is over something so mundane. I guess i dont really understand why though. It sounds like the central bank is thinking about becoming, well, a normal bank. We already have normal banks. Governments can already transfer cash to accounts in normal banks. Governments can already sell bonds to people who want some sort of very stable investment backed b…

> It sounds like the central bank is thinking about becoming, well, a normal bank. We already have normal banks.

That's not entirely the right way to think about this. The money in your account at a "normal bank" only exists as a liability of that bank, and thus would disappear if the bank goes under. A CDBC would not be a liability of any bank, it would be equivalent to physical cash.

I guess you could still think of that as a "liability of the central bank" because they would be responsible for maintaining the ledger. But a central bank cannot go bust in the same way that a normal bank can.

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