When I use the "full" timezone name like "America/New_York", how does libc resolve the ambiguity during the extra hour of the transition from daylight saving time to standard time?
Timezone Bullshit
71–80 of 334 posts
Re: Timezone Bullshit
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you have to implement?
For once pretty much no one is aware of this supposed change. There was like a couple of articles on the day it was voted and that's it. This will 100% not happen, it's another one of those things that the EU parliament votes that everyone ignores, and it's perfect ammunition for those complaining that it makes laws without popular consultation. Trying to go forward with this change will generate massive anti EU back…
> For once pretty much no one is aware of this supposed change
The consultation had 4.6 million responses.
> Having variable time offsets between EU and UK would add yet another layer of disruption on top of Brexit.
So?
Re: Timezone Bullshit
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
...no, actually it’s extremely logical. Changing clocks society wide is far easier than getting every single person and company to adjust its schedule.
Perhaps it was easier in the times before the internet. Now a consistent timeline should be far more convenient than not having to change your habits by a little bit. Edit: If changing schedule is normalized, then it would be just as convenient as changing the clock. In countries without DST, if someone started using DST instead of changing their own schedule, it would be just as difficult.
I don’t think anyone other than programmers thinks DST is much of an inconvenience. The clock changes twice a year, big deal. That’s infinitely less complicated than asking your boss if you can start earlier, which means the store at the subway station will need to be open an hour earlier (since its business comes from commuters), which means restaurants will need to be open earlier to address the lunch crowd, which means your doctor will need to schedule appointments earlier, on and on.
Re: Timezone Bullshit
#74Tangentially, is there a standardized format for local time? ISO8601 has the same issue.
What do you mean? ISO8601 specifies a number of formats. It also specifies how to include the timezone/offset, and that not mentioning a timezone means local time.
Re: Timezone Bullshit
#75no standards = bullshit
Re: Timezone Bullshit
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you have to implement?
For once pretty much no one is aware of this supposed change. There was like a couple of articles on the day it was voted and that's it. This will 100% not happen, it's another one of those things that the EU parliament votes that everyone ignores, and it's perfect ammunition for those complaining that it makes laws without popular consultation. Trying to go forward with this change will generate massive anti EU back…
>it makes laws without popular consultation
That's not accurate.
>This online consultation, which ran from 4 July to 16 August 2018, received 4.6 million responses from all 28 Member States, the highest number of responses ever received in any Commission public consultation. According to the preliminary results (see annex), 84% of respondents are in favour of putting an end to the bi-annual clock change.
Re: Timezone Bullshit
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
It will not happen. The science is overwhelming that having one timezone all year long is worse for people, and switching the clock back and forth twice a years is a minor nuisance at most. The EU's "Ban DST" is the same populist bullshit as Trumps "inject Windex to cure COVID". Based on nothing and ignorant at best. And the cherry on top is, if you ask the EU if they want to receive a no strings attached gift of €10…
If the science is overwhelming, do you have a source? If not, what are the downsides to having the same timezone all year?
[Some links that I've posted the last few times DST has come up:]
The folks who study this:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronobiology
Seem to have come to a consensus that if we're going to get rid of DST, then health-wise it is best to have Standard Time year-round:
> As an international organization of scientists dedicated to studying circadian and other biological rhythms, the Society for Research on Biological Rhythms (SRBR) engaged experts in the field to write a Position Paper on the consequences of choosing to live on DST or Standard Time (ST). The authors take the position that, based on comparisons of large populations living in DST or ST or on western versus eastern edges of time zones, the advantages of permanent ST outweigh switching to DST annually or permanently.
* https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/07487304198541...
For a longer-read, referencing quite a bit of academic literature, but a conclusionary snippet:
> In summary, the scientific literature strongly argues against the switching between DST and Standard Time and even more so against adopting DST permanently. The latter would exaggerate all the effects described above /beyond/ the simple extension of DST from approximately 8 months/year to 12 months/year (depending on country) since /body clocks/ are generally even later during winter than during the long photoperiods of summer (with DST) (Kantermann et al., 2007; Hadlow et al., 2014, 2018; Hashizaki et al., 2018). Perennial DST increases SJL prevalence even more, as described above.
* https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2019.0094...
Other position papers that I've dug up over the years when curiosity got the better of me:
> Society for Research on Biological Rhythms (SRBR) is dedicated to advancing rigorous, peer-reviewed science and evidence-based policies related to sleep and circadian biology.
* https://srbr.org/advocacy/daylight-saving-time-presskit/
* (refs, with pro and con): https://srbr.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/DST-References-S...
European Sleep Research Society:
* https://esrs.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/To_the_EU_Commiss...
Canadian Society for Chronobiology:
* https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-turn-back-th...
* https://twitter.com/ChronobioCanada/status/11906320965969264...
American Academy of Sleep Medicine (with 36 footnotes if you want to dig further):
* https://jcsm.aasm.org/doi/10.5664/jcsm.8780
* https://doi.org/10.5664/jcsm.8780
The Centre for Chronobiology, based at the Psychiatric University Hospital (University of Basel):
* http://www.chronobiology.ch/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/JBR-D...
(Personally, I'm just going to trust the experts on this as I don't have the energy to go digging in things. A quick cursory Google/DDG search is enough for me.)
Re: Timezone Bullshit
#78What an important article to read. I've dealt over a decade with timezones, and this short article has shown me something new (EDT is not unique, gets silently set to UTC).
I am in the habit of using "Country/City" on everything that is not UTC, so I never encountered this issue. But it's so good to know.
Re: Timezone Bullshit
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you have to implement?
The EU is currently one timezone for most of its area, the whole continent excluding Portugal (edit: and Finland, Greece, Baltic states) has the same timezone. But actually it should be 3 or 4 timezones if you want to be close to solar time. Also, there are people who would prefer having solar zone time +1 (so e.g. UTC+2 in Germany instead of UTC+1). The EU decided to chicken out and let the members decide for themse…
>The EU is currently one timezone for most of its area, the whole continent excluding Portugal has the same timezone.
That's definitely not accurate.
Re: Timezone Bullshit
#80The only situation where our datetime instances deal with timezones is on a one way trip to a user's display, document or email. If you are playing around with parsing timezone strings, you are probably making a huge mistake unless you are parsing someone else's trash data. I feel the standard interchange format for datetimes really should be 64 bit Unix timestamps. These are trivial to store in any database as a nat…
> Trying to carry timezone information around is a mistake. No. If a human says a recurring meeting happens at 9 AM Pacific time and the following week they are in daylight saving time, it'll still happen at 9 AM local time. Preserving intent is crucial in this case.
Even better with "virtual meetings": 9AM in which user timezone? Sometime people move and they still expect the meeting to happen at 9am for them.