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Trump Twitter ban 'raises regulation questions' – UK govt minister

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Trump Twitter ban 'raises regulation questions' – UK govt minister

#71
post #60
post #6

Just a random idea: perhaps we should extend democracy to the spreading of information. I.e. you can spread information but only if the majority of people agree with it. (A post is evaluated/moderated by a small group, then a bigger group, etc., until perhaps it reaches the entire population). Moderation is not limited to groups, so echo chambers would not have a chance. EDIT: minorities still have a chance in two wa…

I'm old enough to remember when the government made it illegal to mention homosexuality in schools. And when it was illegal for a particular elected MP to speak on television.

> I'm old enough to remember when the government made it illegal to mention homosexuality in schools.

Even today, there are teachers who spout that homosexuality is somehow a bad thing.

Controversial topics will take time to reach mainstream agreement, no matter how you shape the spread of information. The question is how to do it in a way such that society is not disrupted by a strong opinion.

Re: Trump Twitter ban 'raises regulation questions' – UK govt minister

#72
post #54
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a terrible idea. In times gone by, that would have prevented people spreading information about the world being a sphere and orbiting the sun. The flat earthers and proponents of the earth being the centre of the universe would have suppressed Copernicus' and Kepler's discoveries of heliocentrism and elliptical orbits. New ideas displace old ideas all the time, and that displacement can only occur if th…

I believe that what I'm suggesting is more like how spreading of information worked in the old days (increasingly bigger groups have to approve of the information). The problem is that today we have social media and false information can spread instantly to an entire population. This needs a new approach, because it creates problems like extreme polarization.

I still think this is horribly wrong.

Having groups "approve" information means having gatekeepers who wield a lot of power. Censors. Who is to ensure that they exercise that power both fairly and accurately? It opens a huge can of worms. It might seem to make sense for "obviously" black and white issues. But most are not so clear cut, and choosing a "correct" side is impossible.

"False information" isn't countered by suppression. It's countered with facts and open discussion.

I absolutely agree that the current state of affairs with social media is problematic. That's the reason I quit all of them and deleted my accounts permanently. But what you're advocating still amounts to censorship and a failure to treat individuals as capable of evidence-based rational thought, and is still the antithesis of what we want in an open and free society.

Re: Trump Twitter ban 'raises regulation questions' – UK govt minister

#73

Threatening social media platforms with regulations sounds like a good plan to get them to act as impartial platforms. Still, I fear they will just accept being publishers and deal with regulations while still being considered impartial platforms by the public.

[deleted]

Re: Trump Twitter ban 'raises regulation questions' – UK govt minister

#74
post #17
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like it would just silence minority voices.

Not if the majority would allow them. Minorities can still have discussion groups. It's just that their ideas never achieve mass broadcasting if the majority finds those ideas objectionable.

You are advocating censorship of "objectionable" views. Who is to judge what is and what is not "objectionable" and what can and cannot be spoken in public? This is absolutely wrong.

To do this is to revisit some of the worst days of the 20th century. I am astonished that views like this are getting more popular. Have we learned nothing from history?

In all seriousness, what do you think will be the eventual outcome when you marginalise people this way? Don't just reply to me here. Go and do some real reading.

Re: Trump Twitter ban 'raises regulation questions' – UK govt minister

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd much rather we all man up and learn to live with the fact that people say things we disagree with on the internet, instead of assuming that we need gatekeeping.

Is inciting violence allowed?

If not, the proper measure punishment for a saying or writing should be determined by a court of law, not a company.

Re: Trump Twitter ban 'raises regulation questions' – UK govt minister

#76
post #33

Hancock is a lack-talent idiot. It takes real skill to be a worse secretary of health than both Hunt and Lansley, but he's somehow managed it. He'll say whatever he thinks is popular at the time. Here he is calling for tighter regulation of social media: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/internet-laws... > New laws will be introduced aimed at tackling the internet “wild west” and making Britain the “safe…

The fundamental problem with the regulatory environment in the UK, as far as I can tell, is that both the big parties have been authoritarian on security and technology issues when in power, but neither appears to have a deep understanding of how modern technology works and the moral issues it raises. Consequently, in this field more than most, policies are set almost entirely for political expediency and appearances, rather than because they will achieve any other form of positive result.

This is how we get conflicting positions, such as "we value security and want the UK to be the safest place in the world to be online", but also "we want our police and security services to be able to access any online communications".

The handling of social media has often been similar. Apparently we are a democracy that values free speech, yet we also want the social media companies to use unspecified technology that they are assumed to have available to identify and block harmful content, for whatever definition of "harmful" is politically convenient at the time.

A recurring theme is being seen to object to negative consequences of modern technology but without ever taking a clear stance or positive action for which they could be held responsible if it has other negative consequences of its own. It's the epitome of trying to have a cake and eat it, instead dumping the hard questions on the big tech firms. Those firms make good targets politically because obviously they do have some real problems, so a lot of people will be fine with blaming them for the evils of the tech world and won't have much sympathy for anything bad that happens to them.

Re: Trump Twitter ban 'raises regulation questions' – UK govt minister

#77

Absent everything else, I have to admit I find it hilarious that in four years the White House never figured out a way for the President to address the public via electronic means beyond the consumer app in his pocket. I mean, it's a banal and boring law, but his use of Twitter was always a clear violation of the Presidential Records Act. They couldn't have set up a dumb finger server or something and written him a j…

You don't decide where you can reach your audience, they do.

Re: Trump Twitter ban 'raises regulation questions' – UK govt minister

#78
post #9

What does the "Health Secretary" have to do with tech regulation? [edit: I would think the UK Health Secretary should be pretty specifically focused on the growing health crisis at home rather than interviewing on topics outside his current role.] In any case, regardless of who you are, if you violate the terms of service of platform, you can be terminated on that platform. The platform makes the rules, within the co…

The UK Cabinet traditionally operates on the principle of collective responsibility. Once a position has been adopted, it is everyone's public position and everyone is responsible for it, even if they disagreed or argued for something else in private. If you're not OK with that, you're expected to resign from the Cabinet, and from time to time people do.

A corollary of this is that when any Cabinet minister speaks publicly, they speak on behalf of the government, and they are expected to be able to respond to general media enquiries on matters outside their specific role. They may choose not to respond substantially or to refer the enquiry to a colleague more familiar with the details, and they very often do. If they don't, it is almost certain that they are expressing an agreed Cabinet position and they just happen to be the minister doing the media rounds that day.

Re: Trump Twitter ban 'raises regulation questions' – UK govt minister

#79
post #52
post #3

My thinking right now is that the status quo is the symptom and not the cause. Were we as the human race simply not ready for this? Could we have been more diligent in educating people on ways of debating and understanding, could we have built a society that is not obsessed with perfection and winning? If it wasn't Twitter, Facebook, Google etc. it would simply be something else in their place who had to perform the…

“Could we have more diligent in the educating...” Jesus Christ man. You think you can educate the population to the point they don’t believe conspiracies and “fake news”? I mean, how many anti-vaxers are postgraduates? You’re absolutely nuts if you think you can “fix” the human condition through education.

I really don't understand why you're being so hostile; I genuinely believe that it will help. It's not an all-or-nothing, every bit of progress helps.

As for your very specific example, the arguments post-graduate anti-vaxxers will make are going to be different than people who're mislead and aggravated by 600-word articles or even shorter chain messages spreading bullshit. The vaccine to this bullshit is education, believe it or not.

Re: Trump Twitter ban 'raises regulation questions' – UK govt minister

#80
Fortunately, in the US, the constitution prevents the government from forcing private companies or individuals to promote/broadcast/display the messages of government leaders.

It’s a little weird he tries to characterize Twitter exercising their ability to choose who has a voice on their platform as a new thing. That’s not new. They’ve been doing this all along.

If you only promote free speech in defense of authoritarian sedition, you aren’t promoting free speech. You’re promoting authoritarian sedition.

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