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Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists
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Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists
#72While this is no doubt going to be unpopular here on HackerNews, I'm going to posit the following: This is almost as bad as have 8 of 9 people being Creationists. Better than 90% of a council making decisions for the whole country being of the same persuasion is prone to severe group think. Scientists (or rather, engineers, if you RTFA) aren't immune to this any more than any of us are. If you look at the best run bu…
"If you look at the best run businesses, they are often composed of people with variable backgrounds - people that approach problems from different perspectives." Do you have cited studies to back this up?
I must admit that beyond the anecdotal, I do not.
There is a relatively established method though of creating boards of directors and/or leadership "teams" to achieve better decision making patterns; for this exact reason.
The group is more often than not a better performer than the individual.
Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists
#73This is a good article, but it does miss one incredibly important piece of the puzzle - the possibility that US citizens have an economically rational aversion to PhDs in science and engineering. A recent RAND study supports this point of view: http://www.rand.org/pubs/issue_papers/IP241.html I think it's critical to make science and engineering a desirable career path for young americans, but simply "making it cool"…
Sorry to respond to my own comment, too late for edits...
I want to point out that I'm extremely enthusiastic about majoring in science or engineering, and I think an MS program (especially an employer sponsored one) can be a great way to dig a little deeper into a field or get a background in a new discipline (ie., get an MS in CS if your undergrad was in math or physics). In fact, someone with this background who gets a jd or mba almost has a superpower in those fields. Hard Sci/Eng/Math is also just a great background to get out there and start a company or start doing high value work the moment you hit the workforce.
PhDs are a different beast. Incredibly long training, often highly specialized, generally directed toward an academic career, even if alternatives are available, and kind of scary low pay considering the intelligence level and barriers to entry. I'm not saying CS PhDs aren't employable in Industry at fine salaries, but are they more employable than someone with a BS who rocked it in the workforce for 10 years instead? Are their salaries much higher than people who got professional degrees with shorter completion times and vastly lower attrition rates? No way.
Anyway, I should acknowledge a distinction here - the RAND study is more about PhDs, whereas this article is more about general background. Engineers may not populate government, but it's the most common background among fortune 500 CEOs, way out of proportion to the general degree population.
Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists
#74Are they scientists or engineers? As far as I know scientists do research, write papers, file for patents etc. etc. and Engineers build stuff. How many papers have the published?
Also, being a scientist does not mean that you will be a good administrator or politician. Politics is better left to politicians.
Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists
#75While this is no doubt going to be unpopular here on HackerNews, I'm going to posit the following: This is almost as bad as have 8 of 9 people being Creationists. Better than 90% of a council making decisions for the whole country being of the same persuasion is prone to severe group think. Scientists (or rather, engineers, if you RTFA) aren't immune to this any more than any of us are. If you look at the best run bu…
"If you look at the best run businesses, they are often composed of people with variable backgrounds - people that approach problems from different perspectives." Do you have cited studies to back this up?
> Do you have cited studies to back this up?
At first I thought this was satire. You'll excuse me if I take this in a more interesting direction.
Cited studies are not the first and last word on anything, especially when the question is "are scientists better than everyone else?"
Cited studies promote all kinds of false or questionable beliefs, particularly on political issues. As far as finding a study that answers the specific question "are diverse businesses better run?", I promise you won't have to look very far or very hard.
A common sense, thoughtful argument, backed up by information, trumps studies every time. And, surprisingly, an error-prone poll of a population of average intelligence trumps an intellectual's well-thought-out argument---this is why we have polling stations instead of a politburo.
Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
Communist governments have usually attracted intellectuals to higher levels of power -- the results so far haven't been uplifting. I don't think that a comparison of the US system vs. China is going to produce a clear "winner", only a list of pros/cons whose weighting will be shaped by your perceptions and bias. The explosive growth of China hides most of the warts of the system. When you have economic growth so fast…
Nuanced comment here, good analysis. I agree with a lot, but two nitpicks about the first point - 1. I'd say Communist movements attract intellectuals. Communist governments usually do not employ those intellectuals for very long after taking power. 2. Despite the name and symbols, I don't think China is actually Communist any more. I don't know what to call them. If they remain a world power and continue to thrive,…
I agree that China no longer fits the traditional definition of "Communist". Then again, Maoism didn't quite fit the mold either. China has a strong societal tradition that is different than the west.
While they may not be ideologically communist, China does continue to practice the governance style of communist governments. Think about the Soviet Union's model -- a major part of the Soviet story was purging the old in favor of the new, "scientific" way. China is doing a similar thing, but through different means. The "science" may have been quakery (witness the Aral Sea), but the central planners saw themselves as guided by logic and science, not petty feelings or popularity.
Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Communist governments have usually attracted intellectuals to higher levels of power -- the results so far haven't been uplifting. I don't think that a comparison of the US system vs. China is going to produce a clear "winner", only a list of pros/cons whose weighting will be shaped by your perceptions and bias. The explosive growth of China hides most of the warts of the system. When you have economic growth so fast…
> the results so far haven't been uplifting 10% growth every year for a quarter of a century? I regard that as very impressive. > I don't think that a comparison of the US system vs. China is going to produce a clear "winner" It's likely that one of these two countries is going to end up dominating the world. Of course, it's not so much about countries as social systems: both have their strengths and weaknesses. > An…
Global domination is a funny thing. Did Britain impose its ways on the world and change it forever, or did the world change it?
The answer is "all of the above". Of course many Brits got rich at the expense of the others.
Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists
#78Having
Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists
#79Having trained as a hydraulic engineer doesn't make Hu Jintao a scientist, it makes him an engineer. There's a difference.
Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists
#80They are not scientists, they are administrators with science and engineering degrees.