Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

virginiamercury.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 459 posts

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#71

Post by aggronn »

jimbob45 wrote: post #12
rafram wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a minor crime which people of color tend to be disproportionately cited for.

Isn’t the real causation here that they’re lower class? I would imagine high-class blacks don’t often get ticketed for jaywalking. Lower-class people tend to walk more for reasons related to expensive car maintenance. Are blacks more often lower-class? Sure, but that’s a different issue entirely.

Its not a different issue entirely. Saying that is wrong and its harmful. Our "class system" is defined by the deliberately racist history from which it is derived. Communities of color are not disproportionately poor (and visa versa) by misfortune, random chance, or defect, but by several hundred years of cruel oppression and discrimination. Its factually and morally wrong to promote an idea that laws which predominantly target the poor are not also disproportionately targeting PoC, or that poverty in america and racism in america are "different issue(s) entirely".

> All but one of the jaywalking tickets issued by NYPD cops in the first quarter of this year went to blacks or Hispanics

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/05/07/nypds-racial-bias-in-...

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#72

Post by segfaultbuserr »

majormajor wrote: post #36
msla wrote: post #26

> Before the advent of the automobile, pedestrians in America were widely recognized as having the right of way in all situations. OK, let's go back to this. You can argue right-of-way with a ton of fiberglass and steel going 35 mph. Tell us all how that works out for you. Placing blame doesn't mean anything when the laws of physics dictate which one's going to be the winner in any given scenario.

Maybe that's not a place the vehicle should be going 35mph, then. Maybe the vehicle should be smaller, instead of ever-larger SUVs and trucks. Maybe there should be crosswalks and signals. There's nothing in the laws of physics that dictate that roads should be hard to cross on foot, and that cars should move at their current speeds, and be designed the ways they are. Those are all choices.

Maybe the cars should simply be banned at certain places, it's also a valid possibility.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18014283

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#74

Post by [deleted] »

maxmorlocke wrote: post #16
ravenstine wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but why make a specific point about that with jaywalking? Can't that argument be made for just about any crime? Just seems like a useless red herring to make it about race when it doesn't need to be; it's a related but separate issue to whether jaywalking should be a crime in the first place.

Because jaywalking is very frequently used by police to target communities of color. As an example, 90% of the jaywalking citations given in NYC in 2019 were issued to people of color.

[deleted]

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#75

Post by maxmorlocke »

nickff wrote: post #37
rafram wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a minor crime which people of color tend to be disproportionately cited for.

It looks like non-hispanic whites have much lower rates of pedestrian deaths than other demographics, this indicates that other groups are likely walking in riskier areas, or in more dangerous ways, and may explain some of the 'disparity in ticketing'. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6939a7.htm

Quick check in NYC shows that there were 1.7 deaths / 100K for black folks and 1.8 for white folks between 2012 and 2014. Given the urban/suburban breakdown by race, I'd be inclined to limit the geography to not include, say... Wyoming. Comparing NYC is also valuable given the variance in enforcement of jaywalking along racial lines that we explicitly know about thanks to their open data policies.

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/epi/databrief8...

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#76

Post by redler »

dls2016 wrote: post #66
LordDragonfang wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For that matter, make wage theft criminal, since it accounts for so much more real value stolen.

Very much not interested in locking up more people. Have you seen our (USA) numbers?

Don't lock them up. But charge penalties that greatly exceed the value of the wage theft.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#77

Post by bena »

dls2016 wrote: post #66
LordDragonfang wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For that matter, make wage theft criminal, since it accounts for so much more real value stolen.

Very much not interested in locking up more people. Have you seen our (USA) numbers?

If wage theft were a criminal offense, the people being locked up wouldn't necessarily be of the social class of people currently being locked up for non-violent offenses.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#78

Post by LordDragonfang »

msla wrote: post #19
hk__2 wrote: post #14

This is what I get from France: > This site not available in your country I wonder what makes that website so special it can’t comply with GDPR.

I wonder what makes Europe so special it can demand companies outside of Europe comply with European law.

Well, the US certainly seems to think the rest of the internet should follow their laws, so fair is fair.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#79

Post by BitwiseFool »

umvi wrote: post #21

Jaywalking drives me crazy... sometimes I wish American culture was more German/Japanese in this area and Americans walked the extra 20 feet to the nearest crosswalk and waited for the light. A few times now I've had to tap my brakes for some guy dashing across the street to the island in the middle because he was too impatient to wait for the light to change. Sometimes it's a lady with a shopping cart. These aren't…

There is a noticeable anti-automobile crowd here on HN. Personally, anti-jaywalking laws just make sense and there doesn't need to be sinister motivations from the auto-industry to explain why we have them.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#80

Post by whydoyoucare »

maxmorlocke wrote: post #16
ravenstine wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but why make a specific point about that with jaywalking? Can't that argument be made for just about any crime? Just seems like a useless red herring to make it about race when it doesn't need to be; it's a related but separate issue to whether jaywalking should be a crime in the first place.

Because jaywalking is very frequently used by police to target communities of color. As an example, 90% of the jaywalking citations given in NYC in 2019 were issued to people of color.

Is it possible that "people of color" account for 90% of the total people who jaywalked in NYC in 2019? Unless all data and all variables in the argument are made available for inspection, it is difficult to derive any meaningful conclusions.
Post reply on HN