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Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

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Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#71

Post by juststeve »

juststeve wrote: post #65
grawprog wrote: post #49

Streaming music sucks. It might seem weird but I don't like it. The first music I ever 'owned' myself personally were songs I taped off the radio. After that I started pirating music the same way I would collect songs on the radio, after that I started buying CD's, today I buy songs and albums from artists and producers directly. Building playlists on a streaming service is not the same as building a music collection…

Agree with all of that except the last paragraph - streaming album/LP's suck, and I've had spotify and apple accounts for years . As an alternative, I'd kindly recommend (to anyone) finding a few independent radio stations in genres you like or are new to. I feel that a good DJ and/or announcer is a godsend in an environment where the music alternatives feel endless and the social environment is complex. I just don't…

tl;dr, curation and commentary (with insight) are also essential skills like musicianship, where music supply feels endless.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#72

Post by goatinaboat »

grawprog wrote: post #49

Streaming music sucks. It might seem weird but I don't like it. The first music I ever 'owned' myself personally were songs I taped off the radio. After that I started pirating music the same way I would collect songs on the radio, after that I started buying CD's, today I buy songs and albums from artists and producers directly. Building playlists on a streaming service is not the same as building a music collection…

When all you had was physical media, you listened to albums over and over got to know them, relished the new albums you purchased and had to take the time to decide between one or the other.

Yes, it's a totally different experience now, I don't know how old you are but I suspect we are both of the generation that straddles both models.

On the one hand, I do love the convenience, my phone can identify a song and I can have the artist's latest album a minute or so later. Amazing! But on the other hand music used to be a visual and tactile experience too, enormous amounts of effort went into creating album art and inlays (especially with records), you might study it as you played the music, run your fingers over the sleeves as you chose the next album to play, display your music collection in your living room for guests to browse, etc. Or you keep an old album that reminds you of a time or a place or a person. Or the hours spent with friends traveling to and trawling through record shops in the nearest big town looking for something. Nowadays that activity would be considered a complete waste of time but actually as a teenager those were some halcyon days.

I'm not going to say for anyone else if the new way is better or worse, but for me, something has definitely been lost in the rush to streaming.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#73

Post by mackrevinack »

josephg wrote: post #60
grawprog wrote: post #49

Streaming music sucks. It might seem weird but I don't like it. The first music I ever 'owned' myself personally were songs I taped off the radio. After that I started pirating music the same way I would collect songs on the radio, after that I started buying CD's, today I buy songs and albums from artists and producers directly. Building playlists on a streaming service is not the same as building a music collection…

I hear what you’re saying, but Spotify solves a problem I never managed to solve with CDs: it solves discovery. I used to go to music shops and browse albums, and I had no idea which CD would be worth my money because I couldn’t listen to them and find out! Even from a band I like I would often buy their other albums then get home and be disappointed because they didn’t work for me. In comparison, spotify will find a…

"I miss owning my music collection"

there's nothing stopping you from having both!

I havnt done this yet but im thinking about cancelling my spotify subscription soon and only signing up for a few months out the year just to discover new stuff, then put the rest of the money I would have given spotify that year towards buying the music I want to keep.

I won't have to worry about songs disappearing anymore or my playlists not being downloaded offline and more importantly you are giving an artist some money and not just a fraction of a cent

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#74

Post by strogonoff »

gnopgnip wrote: post #68
throwaway13337 wrote: post #44

An aspect here is that a lot more people are primarily on social media services like YouTube and twitch. The people they follow cannot play popular music because of DMCA take downs. The result is that a natural avenue for discovery music is cut off. Consumers will not associate the experience of the thing they're enjoying with the music as has traditionally been the case with TV, movies, and bars. The setting has a l…

How would artists be compensated if all art was public domain?

Just earlier this month I discovered some stunning new music. I paid its producer $10 for the album, $9 (minimum price) to gift it to a friend, and $9 to gift it to another friend. That day the artist earned $28, minus Bandcamp’s cut, from me alone.

Even though that musician enables free listening via Bandcamp, he does not distribute his work under Creative Commons or a similar license, which radically reduces the chance of lucky accidents where people like me stumble across his music.

I believe having more music distributed under CC or a similar license would immensely benefit musicians themselves, other content creators such as YouTube vloggers and Twitch streamers, and the end listener—everyone wins, except maybe for major labels and distributors.

(Note that CC license is different from public domain: the former mandates attribution, the latter doesn’t.)

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#75

Post by dag11 »

grawprog wrote: post #49

Streaming music sucks. It might seem weird but I don't like it. The first music I ever 'owned' myself personally were songs I taped off the radio. After that I started pirating music the same way I would collect songs on the radio, after that I started buying CD's, today I buy songs and albums from artists and producers directly. Building playlists on a streaming service is not the same as building a music collection…

> Taking time to explore the back catalogue of artists you like and taking the time to get to know music.

This complaint confuses me, as an avid Spotify user. A few times a week when I discover an artist I like, it's one click to look at their entire back catalog, listen to it sequentially, browse the artist bio, click through to the artist's social media to see what projects they're up to, right click and view who produced the tracks to find similarly-produced tracks, etc!

> it was something you waited for

I follow many artists and look forward to their upcoming albums. Why should my wait be extended by manufacturing, supply chains, my schedule to go to a shop, or my own budget to own physical media?

And I say all this as both a heavy Spotify user and a listener of vinyl records. I always get the albums I enjoy most on vinyl for higher fidelity active listening and the physical visual artwork that accompanies the disk.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#76

Post by m463 »

mackrevinack wrote: post #73
josephg wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear what you’re saying, but Spotify solves a problem I never managed to solve with CDs: it solves discovery. I used to go to music shops and browse albums, and I had no idea which CD would be worth my money because I couldn’t listen to them and find out! Even from a band I like I would often buy their other albums then get home and be disappointed because they didn’t work for me. In comparison, spotify will find a…

"I miss owning my music collection" there's nothing stopping you from having both! I havnt done this yet but im thinking about cancelling my spotify subscription soon and only signing up for a few months out the year just to discover new stuff, then put the rest of the money I would have given spotify that year towards buying the music I want to keep. I won't have to worry about songs disappearing anymore or my playl…

> there's nothing stopping you from having both!

Actually it seems the entire music industry including the distributors don't want sales - they seem to prefer streaming.

I remember when apple music came out and I couldn't listen to my music anymore

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#77

Post by i_cannot_hack »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #69
grawprog wrote: post #49

Streaming music sucks. It might seem weird but I don't like it. The first music I ever 'owned' myself personally were songs I taped off the radio. After that I started pirating music the same way I would collect songs on the radio, after that I started buying CD's, today I buy songs and albums from artists and producers directly. Building playlists on a streaming service is not the same as building a music collection…

I completely agree with your poignant "getting to know an album" statement, but I fundamentally disagree with your general point of your issues with streaming; I think it's a boon to have such a wide selection of music at your fingertips. An asymptotically infinite, for practical purposes, amount of music. That being said, I really appreciate your perspective, and everything you said about physical media, the radio,…

> This really can't be emphasized enough. The younger generation has no concept of listening to a song you "don't like" 50 times, simply because you listened to the album you purchased 100 times.

Not necessarily true. When Spotify reaches the end of one of my playlists, it automatically starts playing a radio of "recommended songs" based on the playlist. However, these recommended songs are usually the same, with only minor changes over time.

As a consequence, I can think of several songs that I don't like that I have listened to more than 50 times, simply because they tend to be the among the first recommended songs to play when I've finished one of my regular playlists.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#78

Post by einpoklum »

gnopgnip wrote: post #68
throwaway13337 wrote: post #44

An aspect here is that a lot more people are primarily on social media services like YouTube and twitch. The people they follow cannot play popular music because of DMCA take downs. The result is that a natural avenue for discovery music is cut off. Consumers will not associate the experience of the thing they're enjoying with the music as has traditionally been the case with TV, movies, and bars. The setting has a l…

How would artists be compensated if all art was public domain?

(Not necessarily in order of importance)

1. Direct voluntary payments by their audience (one-off/recurring).

2. Live shows.

3. Payment by various entities to sing something.

4. Organizations (the state, corporations, philanthropic bodies) which sponsor artists to work on their art without having to also do the work of financing themselves.

Still, it's quite possible that would fund less than are funded today. To that I would say:

1. It would still be a reasonable trade-off.

2. It would level the playing field somewhat between today's popular performers/artists and the vast majority of their peers whom, today, aren't funded.

3. Communities should motivate themselves, and organize themselves, to support local artists on the individual level, and to provide facilities such as music rooms, instruments, recording studios, professional training/lessons - for free or a symbolic fee, to local music artists (and ditto for other kinds of art) - so that at least people don't have to pay to engage in their art.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#79

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

josephg wrote: post #60
grawprog wrote: post #49

Streaming music sucks. It might seem weird but I don't like it. The first music I ever 'owned' myself personally were songs I taped off the radio. After that I started pirating music the same way I would collect songs on the radio, after that I started buying CD's, today I buy songs and albums from artists and producers directly. Building playlists on a streaming service is not the same as building a music collection…

I hear what you’re saying, but Spotify solves a problem I never managed to solve with CDs: it solves discovery. I used to go to music shops and browse albums, and I had no idea which CD would be worth my money because I couldn’t listen to them and find out! Even from a band I like I would often buy their other albums then get home and be disappointed because they didn’t work for me. In comparison, spotify will find a…

> I hear what you’re saying, but Spotify solves a problem I never managed to solve with CDs: it solves discovery.

For years before Spotify went mainstream – going all the way back to the early millennium! – discovery was already provided by services like Last.fm where you could see what your friends and neighbors were listening to, and filesharing communities where you could then freely download the music.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#80

Post by sharpneli »

foepys wrote: post #67
J0_k3r wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say you're a youtuber or streamer who listens to a variety of different music, are you really going to pay to license every one of your favorite songs for business use? No. Instead they go to No Copyright Sounds or Kevin McLeod and grab their stuff instead because why are you going to sacrifice that money to license the music when you're small and starting out?

When streamers are streaming, they are working. If you want to listen to your favorite music, you can do that in your own private time. In a business context, other rules apply. > why are you going to sacrifice that money to license the music when you're small and starting out Does this also apply to utility bills? Just use non-copyrighted music. If that isn't enough, you need to pay or just live with it.

The original post talked about this causing a lack of discovery for the new music. If the streamer doesn't pay and just uses non-copyrighted music no harm done to the streamer. It's still great fun. But the users don't get exposed to potentially interesting music content.

Why should the streamer pay for the privilege of being basically an advertisement platform for a commercial product? And they don't, and thus there is less discovery. Hence what is meant by the music industry shooting itself in the foot.

I personally listen mostly to music I listened as a teenager and early 20's. Sometimes I learn of something new and nice from my friends, but otherwise I find discovering new music quite hard.

A new game comes out: Tons of reviews and letsplays and whatnot. Looks interesting, I'll buy. New music comes out: Its advertised maybe in Spotify but that's it. Making a review or analysis is not possible (without paying extra), so I can't encounter it. And thus I won't listen it.

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