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Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

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Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#71

Post by muhfuhkuh »

ugh wrote: post #50
muhfuhkuh wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, pointing the finger at one particular government for their failure to sanction/punish/invade/liberate another country when they could "easily" do so seems totally justified? How about pointing the finger at the offending country, rather than at it's bordering ones?

The article makes very specific complaints about China’s behavior. Which do you think are unjustified and why?

I turned an exact passage from a heavily opinionated and critical article on North Korean slaves that turned into a Chinese government hit piece and held a light on US policies toward blood-soaked Mexican border drug wars (that are now spilling into Texas and neighboring states, btw).

Do we need to excoriate and condemn the Kim regime and his policies and call for a revolution within their borders? Absolutely. Should we shame bordering countries into liberating them in the name of "freedom" (of which, said bordering country's people are themselves not free)?

I believe the US is firmly (and some would say inexorably) ensconced in two wars (and on the ragged edge of 3 or some would say 4) trying to "liberate" the Middle East. How's that going for us?

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#72

Post by eropple »

johnmossel wrote: post #45

I'm sorry, but ... seriously, a nation that still hasn't closed Guantanamo Bay. Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.

I would advise you to stop huffing butane until the comparison you have made sounds as plainly preposterous to yourself as it does to people who are not suffering from an altered mental state.

HTH. HAND.

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#73

Post by uuilly »

muhfuhkuh wrote: post #9

"I can admire China’s growth in infrastructure and technology, it’s pursuit to compete on a global scale, but what good is all that growth if it allows these crimes to go on next door?" I admire America's prominence in infrastructure and technology, it's continuing domination on a global scale, but what good is all that power when over 40,000 people and rising are murdered because of a drug war for which they are com…

Making a concentration camp is intentional. Allowing a drug war to proliferate is neglect. Intent matters in criminal sentencing and it matters here.

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#74

Post by lotusleaf1987 »

Jun8 wrote: post #68

(This is a recurrent fantasy of mine) I think we should have an independent armed forces with the power to intervene in gross violations of human rights, something like the UN but with exponentially more authority (current UN peace keeping forces are a joke, e.g. see Srebrenica massacre, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre , for just one example of many). This force would have the initiative to wage war…

I 100% agree, imagine if we had invaded North Korea rather than Iraq. Both had bad tyrants/dictators but North Korea makes Iraq look like Disneyland. Same as number of other countries, I think we should be tackling objectively worse humanitarian problems as higher priority.

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#75

Post by Duff »

Jun8 wrote: post #68

(This is a recurrent fantasy of mine) I think we should have an independent armed forces with the power to intervene in gross violations of human rights, something like the UN but with exponentially more authority (current UN peace keeping forces are a joke, e.g. see Srebrenica massacre, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre , for just one example of many). This force would have the initiative to wage war…

It sounds good until you explore the details. At the end of the day, someone pays the bills, and whomever controls the checkbook tends to set the agenda. There is no such thing as independence.

Flashback to 1985. The Soviet puppet government was committing all sorts of atrocities against people in Afghanistan. Clearly the moral imperative was to stand up for the "freedom fighters", right?

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#76

Post by kalid »

ck2 wrote: post #4

If they still made the sears catalog I'd suggest the key to starting a peoples' revolt in North Korea would be to airdrop hundreds of thousands of catalogs across the country. Even without understanding the language, just looking at all the goods would make people start wondering why they are being made to suffer so.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's a question of disliking the regime, but people having the power/food/resources to fight back.

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#77

Post by elliottcarlson »

johnmossel wrote: post #54
johnmossel wrote: post #45

I'm sorry, but ... seriously, a nation that still hasn't closed Guantanamo Bay. Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.

Ohhh... someone gonna cry?

No - it's just a ridiculous statement. A governments action does not reflect the opinion of the occupants of that country. Neither does it reflect that of an independent organization even if it is based in a country who has a different stance that may been seen as hypocritical.

Does your government and leadership reflect everything you stand for?

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#78

Post by TeMPOraL »

jekdoce wrote: post #48
bloggergirl wrote: post #2

Thank you for posting this. A key takeaway from the article is in the final paragraph: "if we allow it, we could live in a world that makes great strides forward, but that can never rid itself of the abhorrent authoritarian tool that is the concentration camp." We allow these horrors to occur. That's not a judgment on anyone; I'm definitely part of the problem because I'm not part of the solution (to borrow a cliche)…

Initial ideas: - Keep sharing the link for a week/month on Facebook, hopefully making it viral - Setup a Facebook page for this, asking the same question "What can we do?" - It has to start from within, see Tunisia, Egypt etc. - Making sure folks inside North Korea can access info via proxy servers if it's blocked

Agree. I remember hearing that the general population of WWII Germany was unaware of the atrocities that happened in Nazi concentration camps. Given also the recent events in countries you mentioned, I think that making regular people in North Korea know what's going on in their country could be very, very important.

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#79

Post by lotusleaf1987 »

elliottcarlson wrote: post #12
yequalsx wrote: post #10

What I can't understand is how people can visit North Korea and not feel disgusted by giving support for that regime. I believe North Korea is facing another famine this year. Given the conditions in North Korea and the apparent iron grip its regime has on power is it better not to provide food aid? I can't decide for myself if it's better, for the long term, to let the nation starve and not help the people out or to…

The problem is that visitors require a guide - someone who will hide the true nature of NK to them and ensuring they only see what they are allowed to see. Even though there has been a good amount of hidden camera footage exposed, or articles such as this one - there are plenty of people who may not really be aware of what is really going on there behind the scenes.

Vice Guide has a great documentary available streaming on Netflix. It was so depressing/surreal/horrifying all at once.

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#80

Post by ugh »

muhfuhkuh wrote: post #71
ugh wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article makes very specific complaints about China’s behavior. Which do you think are unjustified and why?

I turned an exact passage from a heavily opinionated and critical article on North Korean slaves that turned into a Chinese government hit piece and held a light on US policies toward blood-soaked Mexican border drug wars (that are now spilling into Texas and neighboring states, btw). Do we need to excoriate and condemn the Kim regime and his policies and call for a revolution within their borders? Absolutely. Should…

I see no advocacy for a war with North Korea in the linked article. China will not go to war with North Korea, China supports North Korea and North Korea is to a certain extent dependent on China. This article wishes that China would use this dependency for good, no more, no less.
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