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Pfizer chairman: We're not sure if someone can transmit Covid after vaccination

thehill.com

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Re: Pfizer chairman: We're not sure if someone can transmit Covid after vaccination

#71

Post by solinent »

saalweachter wrote: post #39
solinent wrote: post #10

I hate to be that person, but I'm personally more worried about the virus mutating under the increased selection pressure. We only defeated polio with a >99% effective vaccine, and the research for this vaccine isn't even available.

Is this really a concern? Pruning gene lines from the gene pool only benefits the surviving individuals if it leaves resources on the table for these survivors to be fruitful and multiply, growing to exploit their new niche. If there are variants of COVID-19 the vaccine doesn't protect against, is there any reason to think they would have been crowded out by the original variants? Wouldn't their ability to bypass imm…

I have no clue, I'm not an expert. I just don't see any discussion on this topic and it concerns me. Historically, I don't see any vaccine which was effective against such a virulent virus, unless it had a much higher rate of immunity. I'd gamble on 5% odds if the reward was high enough, so 95% immunity sounds good but it's only half as strong 97.5% immunity, for example.

I do know that the immunity may only be temporary--1 out of 20 cases of the most virulent strains may then have a larger substrate to mutate within, but I'm not sure if you can get many strains at once, for example. I do know that the flu mutates each year, and I guess I'm basing this whole "increased selection pressure could cause more mutations" on that fact. When there is less available space for the virus to propagate, it's only chance of survival is to be able to infect those who are already immune.

In my opinion, we have an immune system crisis here--we need to focus on eating better and exercising more: we have to fight this virus with every tool we've got, but if we wait a few more months it's possible that we'll get a stronger vaccine. I suspect that's why it ended sooner in certain places--I doubt any measure we can take have had any real effect due to the virulence of COVID--it's in the air and on surfaces and lives there for days, and is transmitted by asymptomatic carriers--so your uber eats driver driving in their car with the AC will infect your food etc.

Re: Pfizer chairman: We're not sure if someone can transmit Covid after vaccination

#72

Post by AndrewBissell »

FruityCoconut wrote: post #62
Shared404 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Note: The "No." here applies to your implied message, not your literal wording. Conspiracy theorists are the ones who deny science. Conspiracy theorists are the ones who refuse vaccines without reason. Conspiracy theorists are the ones who believe in large scale fraud with no evidence. Conspiracy theorists are the ones who think "This virus is a hoax". I guess any of the above could also qualify for straight up s…

Being on the periphery of groups you'd likely describe as "conspiracy theorists", practically all of this is strawmanning. This has become more of a political issue than a scientific issue. I saw a video of a doctor(?) streaming a video alone in his own home in Germany, when armed police stormed his home and arrested him for objecting to the narrative. That's not science. Anyway, can we really blame the common man fo…

Amazing to see you get so many downvotes for this post. The modern conception of "conspiracy theory" really is just nothing more than a cudgel, a rhetorical trick to deflect sensible questions posed of official narratives and procedures by putting them in a bucket with off-the-wall absurdities.

Re: Pfizer chairman: We're not sure if someone can transmit Covid after vaccination

#74

Post by rualca »

FruityCoconut wrote: post #62
Shared404 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Note: The "No." here applies to your implied message, not your literal wording. Conspiracy theorists are the ones who deny science. Conspiracy theorists are the ones who refuse vaccines without reason. Conspiracy theorists are the ones who believe in large scale fraud with no evidence. Conspiracy theorists are the ones who think "This virus is a hoax". I guess any of the above could also qualify for straight up s…

Being on the periphery of groups you'd likely describe as "conspiracy theorists", practically all of this is strawmanning. This has become more of a political issue than a scientific issue. I saw a video of a doctor(?) streaming a video alone in his own home in Germany, when armed police stormed his home and arrested him for objecting to the narrative. That's not science. Anyway, can we really blame the common man fo…

> Being on the periphery of groups you'd likely describe as "conspiracy theorists" (...)

There's no need for so many weasel words.

You are talking about a group which insists in spreading theories about how a phenomenon is supposed to be the result of a major conspiracy, and thus insist that the phenomenon does not exist at all.

Re: Pfizer chairman: We're not sure if someone can transmit Covid after vaccination

#75

Post by rualca »

xlm1717 wrote: post #73

So we're right back to "it's not for you it's for the people around you, you selfish asshole"?

I don't understand your confusion.

From day 1 it was always very clear that although protective measures such as facemasks do protect the individual from contracting the disease, their primary value is to prevent the mask wearer from spreading it.

We're talking about a disease which is known for having week-long periods where asymptomatic/presymptomatic carriers can unknowingly spread the disease.

Think about it: why do you believe surgeons wear face masks, latex gloves, wash their hands, wear lab coats, protective shoes, and do their surgeon things in sterilized rooms?

Re: Pfizer chairman: We're not sure if someone can transmit Covid after vaccination

#76

Post by rualca »

mulmen wrote: post #44
soupfordummies wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s an excellent point about the shoes that I hadn’t put together. I think the vast majority of us think the shoe thing is stupid but we do it cause it’s that or not fly. If only we could get mandated masks, I think we’d already be out of the woods. Although I regularly see <2 unmasked folks total in the grocery stores around me, it’s a fairly liberal area so I’m just rambling now so have a good safe holiday time.

The mask mandate personal choice indignation really cracks me up. Try buying a gallon of milk without pants.

Then there's also the fact that the cliche "no shoes no shirt no service" never gathered much indignation from the same segment of society.

Re: Pfizer chairman: We're not sure if someone can transmit Covid after vaccination

#77

Post by rualca »

avs733 wrote: post #16

This is a perfectly reasonable statement that is being blown out of proportion. He is speaking in a scientifically accurate and narrow way - they don't know that yet, those studies have not been completed. That doesn't mean you can, or that it is even likely or probable that you can, just that they don't have results saying you can't yet. That is because those results inherently take longer than studying the effecica…

I would say that vaccines work to prepare the immune system to fight a specific threat, but that doesn't mean the virus or the disease disappears. It just mean that the infection's impact is mitigated on the individual and, with time, on the population.
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