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Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

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Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#71

Post by toomuchtodo »

freetime2 wrote: post #65
elcritch wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone currently living in Wyoming, I’m really disconcerted by SanFran when I visit, as an example. At least Wyoming’s low taxes (no state income tax) and low population explain the state of the infrastructure. SanFran? Not so much, it’s a golden child of incredible economic success, liberal ideals, and horrible (political) mis-management. The issues on infrastructure in the US run much more than Red vs Blue. It’…

As a former Bay Area resident and a progressive, I agree. Progressives in urban areas should focus more on improving things at the state and local levels where they live, and less on what their fellow countrymen in more conservative areas are doing.

Why haven’t those conservatives brought basic human right utilities (power, water, internet to Native Americans) to their citizens then yet?

Sure, urban areas have challenges, but to say “stay in your lane” is whataboutism in this instance.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#72

Post by 908B64B197 »

jriggs wrote: post #66

I think 3 months of full-time study is more that enough time to get the fundamentals of software development and land an entry level dev job. This is especially true when paired with a career preparation program. Many bootcamps have 90+% verified placements rates after graduation

I'm extremely skeptical of bootcamps, especially after learning that some of the TA's at Lambda are hired to help with teaching as little as two months into the program as students[0]. I guess that counts toward their "placement" stats!

Not only that, but Lambda (probably the most notorious bootcamp out there) seems so desperate that they will offer a fresh grad at no cost to any company for a 4 week trial period. [1]

[0] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/lambda-schools-job-p...

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25138610

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#73

Post by hi41 »

selestify wrote: post #41
hi41 wrote: post #36

This article speaks to me. I had experience on mainframe and wanted to get a job in Java. I learned Java however the interviewer would always say I was missing something. It could be J2ee, Jboss etc. with the Java ecosystem so large, can someone please help me how to learn. Is J2ee still in use or has all development moved to cloud. Where do I even begin to learn modern technologies. TIA.

That sounds like suboptimal interviewing on their part. So long as you understand programming fundamentals, you should have no trouble looking up documentation on the fly while on the job, as opposed to memorizing everything before the interview. It might take you a little bit to get ramped up and productive, but that’s normal. I have only been asked once to answer specifics about the idiosyncrasies of a particular l…

I attended 3 interviews. In addition to Java, one interviewer asked for solr experience. Another asked for 5+ years of experience on J2ee. Another spoke yo me, took my details and never came back. All 3 interviews ended unsuccessfully.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#74

Post by troupe »

dallasrpi wrote: post #4

Some of the people they are talking to here have just done 3 month courses. They are competing against people who have 4+ year degrees and people with more experience. They are going to have to build up their resumes with smaller things whether its a project of their own or small jobs for other people.

But where are they going to get the experience if no one will hire them at the full wages they have heard software engineers get? :)

To get to the point where they are on par with a college graduate, they would need to pay an employer to give them on the job training for several years and then try to get a paying job.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#75

Post by troupe »

hi41 wrote: post #36

This article speaks to me. I had experience on mainframe and wanted to get a job in Java. I learned Java however the interviewer would always say I was missing something. It could be J2ee, Jboss etc. with the Java ecosystem so large, can someone please help me how to learn. Is J2ee still in use or has all development moved to cloud. Where do I even begin to learn modern technologies. TIA.

> I learned Java

Did you have working projects you could show them? Usually the reason companies are looking for someone with job experience in a technology is because they want to see if know how to get things done beyond the syntax.

Showing a web application you are running for fun, or other hobby projects where you've demonstrated your ability to deliver is a good way to do that if you don't have the job experience to point to.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#76

Post by troupe »

i_haz_rabies wrote: post #38
chrk33 wrote: post #15

I think a seasoned developer needs about 3 months to get familiar with a new framework/toolset within the same environment e.g. moving from React to Angular. What can a person without prior in-depth knowledge learn in a Three-month, full-time software-engineering course? This does not sound to me a programme wherein they genuinely want people to get into software development. But disprove me please, if you have exper…

I did a 9 week bootcamp and I've been a productive developer for 5 years now (I was an unproductive developer for the first year). I was incredibly lucky to find a company willing to take a chance on me, because I was completely useless at first. This is not an advisable strategy for changing careers, especially for someone with dependents.

Did you have much tech experience before the bootcamp?

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#77

Post by aroundtown »

granzymes wrote: post #54
aroundtown wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of those 30-40% checking in. When I graduated with a CS degree in '07 (US) the first job offer I received was for $25k. I was so angry at that offer. I told the hiring manager that I couldn't possibly work for less than $35k they scoffed at that, I told them no thanks. I could make more money flipping burgers. I kept looking for work. Had another offer for $32k with one week of vacation a year, and no health care…

> The second thing that frustrates me is the sheer number of people that I have interacted with that have pulled the ladder up behind them once they make it out. Could you expand on that?

Certainly, what I mean here is people that have been helped out to get where they are, then not pay it forward or in fact go out of their way to not help out their peers.

I've seen this happen many times. Not just to friends, but co-workers and people that I have met along the way.

In one case I had a friend who was hired by a former classmate to a local firm. After a year there they started hiring more programmers company wide. This friend refused to interview people who had graduated from our department or pass along resumes. Instead they started hiring other people from non-engineering departments that they thought they could train to program. This guy is now a C-level and still refuses to hire people that graduated from our department.

I'd wager that it's just a feature of my particular network and people I've come across. As my partner is the opposite, and their network helps each other out.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#78

Post by 908B64B197 »

smnrchrds wrote: post #55
dcolkitt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are good paying jobs outside STEM. Finance, consulting, media, law (especially IP law if you have a bachelors in STEM), etc. If an engineering grad decides to become an actuary or management consultant or investment banker, that doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't find a STEM job.

Ontario Society of Professional Engineers did a study on engineering labour maker in Ontario 5 years ago. Their findings show that this is not the reason behind the majority of people with engineering degrees doing non-engineering work. I don't know how the results compare to those in the US or UK, but it certainly is an eye-opening data point. Some highlights: - According to the 2011 NHS, only 29.7 per cent (67,045…

3 things: MBAs, Finance and Consulting.

Engineering filters heavily for analytical skills and is math heavy.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#79

Post by clusterhacks »

908B64B197 wrote: post #69
clusterhacks wrote: post #62

At my workplace (of 10+ years), when we recruit for entry-level positions, we typically get 15-50 applicants. We are not a software company so we do not use deep algorithm testing as part of our evaluation process. Most applicants (probably 80% or more) have a computer science or information systems 4 year BS degree. The other 20% typically have a STEM degree with some programming courses or experience. Probably 20%-…

> All these details seem to add up to a rather stark observation - there is NO shortage of highly qualified applicants for these types of jobs. Our geographic region has many tech employers so we aren't the only option for job seekers. We probably aren't even in the top 25% of employers for salary in our area. Where is that? > We are not a software company so we do not use deep algorithm testing as part of our evalua…

Middle-eastern United States area.

Our rubric is for deciding who to interview. We definitely have new grads who have resumes with meaningful programming projects who get into the interview pool. We have hired new grads over experienced candidates on the strength of the interview.

During an interview, we usually have a whiteboard abstract design and pseudo-code guided exercise. I also very much like to ask candidates to walk us through one of their projects and experience with that as well. Occasionally, someone who doesn't do very well with other parts of the interview will really open up on a school or personal project and show unexpected insight and ability.

I wish we could do a blinded work-sample test, but there are HR policies that prevent us from using one.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#80

Post by elcritch »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #71
freetime2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former Bay Area resident and a progressive, I agree. Progressives in urban areas should focus more on improving things at the state and local levels where they live, and less on what their fellow countrymen in more conservative areas are doing.

Why haven’t those conservatives brought basic human right utilities (power, water, internet to Native Americans) to their citizens then yet? Sure, urban areas have challenges, but to say “stay in your lane” is whataboutism in this instance.

Indian reservations are independent from their surrounding states and semi-sovereign (technically at least) but essentially managed by the federal government by the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA). Many conservatives believe the state of many Indian reservations are due in part to the mismanaged “welfare state” policies of the BIA that hinder NA’s from improving their lives. Personally I don’t know enough about the situation to say. I was only a child the last time I lived on an Indian reservation and barely remember it.
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