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World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

theguardian.com

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Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#71

Post by dzolob »

slothtrop wrote: post #60
difosfor wrote: post #59

I suppose it's slightly more animal friendly. On the other hand it just seems like another step into the direction of turning the chickens into optimized food machines. Would be more interested in seeing more means of producing tasty food without using animals and at reduced costs to the environment. Working towards one final giant culling of all unnaturally engineered animals and just continuing on with a small numb…

Nothing's ever enough for vegans. > Would be more interested in seeing more means of producing tasty food without using animals and at reduced costs to the environment. There is increasingly more of that all the time. > On the other hand it just seems like another step into the direction of turning the chickens into optimized food machines. Another step? They aren't getting any more optimized, if anything new availab…

As long as animals are treated as commodities instead of sentient beings, yeah, nothing is going to be enough for vegans.

Empathy is a great quality to cultivate.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#72

Post by balabaster »

dzolob wrote: post #71
slothtrop wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing's ever enough for vegans. > Would be more interested in seeing more means of producing tasty food without using animals and at reduced costs to the environment. There is increasingly more of that all the time. > On the other hand it just seems like another step into the direction of turning the chickens into optimized food machines. Another step? They aren't getting any more optimized, if anything new availab…

As long as animals are treated as commodities instead of sentient beings, yeah, nothing is going to be enough for vegans. Empathy is a great quality to cultivate.

Empathy is great, but unfortunately it's not a fix. There's only so much empathy we can have for the environment around us without giving away everything and getting nothing in return. Having empathy for the needs of your fellow human beings is still empathy, even if it comes at the cost of empathy for animals. Empathy for animals at the cost of empathy for your fellow humans is no more a solution than the other way around. So empathy just doesn't fix everything.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#73

Post by slothtrop »

KitDuncan wrote: post #48

It is stupid those are called "no-kill" eggs. Still plenty of killing/suffering involved. Just stop eating eggs people. It's not that hard.

Seems like an apt description to me. If you're referring to killing chickens for consumption, eggs have no bearing, it has its own demand.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#74

Post by slothtrop »

globular-toast wrote: post #43

It's still killing the egg. But I guess we feel better about killing an egg than a hatched, fluffy chick? I think it could only be called "no kill" if there was a way to ensure each fertilised egg is female.

Say, what are your thoughts on abortion?

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#75

Post by jononor »

romanoderoma wrote: post #52
kgwgk wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Assuming they weight around 30 grams it's ~1,800,000 tons of meat Check your math.

Yep, it's 180,000 tons. Which would still feed 18,000,000 million people in Africa for a year.

A million too much in there, I think.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#76

Post by [deleted] »

slothtrop wrote: post #70
kevinmgranger wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming all vegans feel the way the person you're replying to is a bit of a broad brush, no?

It's a broad one. We've been here often, if for the sake of argument you control for issues that are brought forth like suffering or the environment, the overwhelming response will default back to saying those thing actually didn't matter because meat is murder anyway. Granted "some vegans" would be more precise, but that's still the sentiment.

[deleted]

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#77

Post by slfnflctd »

jawns wrote: post #68
globular-toast wrote: post #43

It's still killing the egg. But I guess we feel better about killing an egg than a hatched, fluffy chick? I think it could only be called "no kill" if there was a way to ensure each fertilised egg is female.

Well, not killing the egg, but killing the developing chick inside the egg. But you're right, it's just killing the chick earlier in its lifecycle, before it hatches. Analogous to aborting a human while in the womb, versus killing it shortly after birth.

If you're going to split hairs on ethics, the real question is how much pain/suffering is involved. From what I've read, most scientists agree the neurological wiring to feel pain is not in place until past the point when nearly all abortions occur. If this was also true for the developing male chicks, I would certainly prefer that outcome.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#78

Post by wpietri »

slothtrop wrote: post #60
difosfor wrote: post #59

I suppose it's slightly more animal friendly. On the other hand it just seems like another step into the direction of turning the chickens into optimized food machines. Would be more interested in seeing more means of producing tasty food without using animals and at reduced costs to the environment. Working towards one final giant culling of all unnaturally engineered animals and just continuing on with a small numb…

Nothing's ever enough for vegans. > Would be more interested in seeing more means of producing tasty food without using animals and at reduced costs to the environment. There is increasingly more of that all the time. > On the other hand it just seems like another step into the direction of turning the chickens into optimized food machines. Another step? They aren't getting any more optimized, if anything new availab…

> Nothing's ever enough for vegans.

That's a weird complaint on a site about eternal disruption, eternal improvement of things that are basically fine already.

I'm an omnivore, and I'm comfortable with it. But that doesn't keep me from recognizing the ethical issues with killing and controlling other beings to survive. I really appreciate people pushing the envelope on this. If I could eat basically the same diet but have it all be from a replicator, I'd do it in a heartbeat. So keep pushing, vegans!

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#79

Post by chrisjarvis »

srean wrote: post #63
chrisjarvis wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "If not you, then who?" - Hillel, first- century Jewish scholar "would you like some cheese with that whine?" - my mom

Please, its Gandhi. No ill will intended, its a common mistake.

noted, thanks.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#80

Post by Bjartr »

romanoderoma wrote: post #52
kgwgk wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Assuming they weight around 30 grams it's ~1,800,000 tons of meat Check your math.

Yep, it's 180,000 tons. Which would still feed 18,000,000 million people in Africa for a year.

Feeding food insecure (and worse) people around the world is very, very rarely about food quantity and is almost always about the logistics of getting food from where it exists in excess to where it is lacking. Fuel and labor costs dominate the equation.
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