Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#71

Post by bryanrasmussen » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 9:25 AM UTC

LatteLazy wrote: post #5

chrismcb wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you getting shafted if your individual dataset isn't worth that much?

The only reason I'll pay you a dollar for your data is that I'll make 2 dollars selling you shit you wouldn't have bought otherwise using it. And for me to make 2 dollars, you need to buy 20 dollars worth of shit. Shit you didn't actually want or need.

It seems highly unlikely you will make your money on selling people things they don't want OR need, I mean you can certainly make money selling things people don't need but that is because they want it.

I guess I have at times bought something I did not want or need, but that was because my wife or kids wanted or needed it.

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#72

Post by krageon » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 9:35 AM UTC

taneq wrote: post #61

gretch wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in real life examples, the exact opposite has been playing out. Instead of you being sold to the richest, hungriest gas station, it's more like all of the gas stations racing to the lowest price to serve you, and consumers having no brand relationships with gas stations anymore. If Android auto was always serving up expensive gas, users would start using bing or apple maps - I certainly would if there was such a…

How many people would do so, though? How many non-technical people are capable of untangling themselves from Google’s services? How many non-technical people are even aware that “Google” isn’t the only search engine?

For non-technical people I would say it is much easier. Use another service that offers email, calendar and contacts (Germany is full of them) - done. For storage it's a little more complicated. Other than that, what do regular people use? Search? I've seen just as many use bing or what have you.

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#73

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 9:35 AM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #4

I was thinking about a related idea recently - how much is my grocery information privacy worth for me? Summed up, I'm currently saving just over 11% on all the groceries + ~7% on fuel cost by sharing that information with 5 companies. (car insurance, CC, shop card, honey, airline) I'm not attached to this, I'd rather the programs like this get destroyed. But also by stacking the offers, I believe I'm getting more va…

[deleted]

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#74

Post by krageon » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 9:37 AM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #26

titzer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe I'm getting more value here than they do. Well, these huge chains have bean counters that do exactly these kind of calculations, and in general, no. They are making more money in aggregate by doing this data collection than they are losing to discounts. Otherwise they would not do it. The real mystery is the shadow economy behind the scenes of how this data gets packaged, sold, analyzed, and monetized. Yo…

> Well, these huge chains have bean counters that do exactly these kind of calculations, and in general, no. That's why I mentioned selling the same information to 5 companies. I get each of them separately maybe paying a few bucks. I'm assuming that a few of them resell the information to the same market making that information less useful and giving me more value. But at $70+ a month for the very repetitive shoppin…

By selling to multiple companies is likely to devalue your information. That has been factored in to the discount pricing (in aggregate, over the entire population of people that use these discounts), because that's the point of the people who calculate this.

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#75

Post by surajs » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 9:40 AM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #4

I was thinking about a related idea recently - how much is my grocery information privacy worth for me? Summed up, I'm currently saving just over 11% on all the groceries + ~7% on fuel cost by sharing that information with 5 companies. (car insurance, CC, shop card, honey, airline) I'm not attached to this, I'd rather the programs like this get destroyed. But also by stacking the offers, I believe I'm getting more va…

re the privacy/money break even, i think archival data which does not uniquely identify you should form the bulk of any transaction, which would tend to bring your expectations down by quite a notch.

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#76

Post by shafyy » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 9:43 AM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #52

grawprog wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, until that information is used to give individualized prices and other things. Or used to hide things or show you only things the algorithms decide you like....or should have according to them. Already i've read things about hotel websites and stuff altering prices based on which device you're using to browse their site. In a world where your personal shopping information is bought and sold and things become in…

Thank you for providing an actual, tangible downside to this. I've never really seen one before. So many articles like this end up with people coming up with scenarios like "But what if there's a dictator and he wants to round up everyone who bought a 12-pack of Charmin' last week?" It would be interesting to see the arms race that could arise, though. If individualized prices became enough of a thing, there would pr…

Isn't price discrimination like this illegal in the US? I know it's illegal in the EU for sure.

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#77

Post by elcritch » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 10:08 AM UTC

known wrote: post #51

I refuse to give my mobile number at grocery stores though they tempt me with offers/discounts :)

Apparently some enterprising people will lookup that store’s number in an map app and use that. It’s common enough habit that many stores already have an account. ;)

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#78

Post by Vinnl » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 10:11 AM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #52

grawprog wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, until that information is used to give individualized prices and other things. Or used to hide things or show you only things the algorithms decide you like....or should have according to them. Already i've read things about hotel websites and stuff altering prices based on which device you're using to browse their site. In a world where your personal shopping information is bought and sold and things become in…

Thank you for providing an actual, tangible downside to this. I've never really seen one before. So many articles like this end up with people coming up with scenarios like "But what if there's a dictator and he wants to round up everyone who bought a 12-pack of Charmin' last week?" It would be interesting to see the arms race that could arise, though. If individualized prices became enough of a thing, there would pr…

How about "bombarding someone with articles about how voting doesn't matter if their spending pattern matches that of a particular demographic"?

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#79

Post by amelius » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 10:24 AM UTC

pochamago wrote: post #11

LatteLazy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair. But how much of advertising actually informs you of a new and useful product? Vs how much just tries to upsell you, convince you you want something you didn't want 5 minutes ago, or push brands that add nothing substancice? I know I'm a cynical uni bomber type, I don't expect anyone to 100% agree or for adverts to disappear. But dwhen was the last time an advert actually informed you of a product you did…

I would say yesterday, potentially. Saw an ad for totally watertight running shoes, which was not something I thought existed. Haven't looked into the product enough to buy them, but it's a good bet I will, and they would be of great utility to me.

This is never an argument for unsolicited advertising and user tracking, though.

I.e. you could have achieved the same by explaining your needs to some shop or service. Just tell them that you are a runner and want relevant ads in your mailbox. No need to tell them about the rest of your life.

Re: Why Getting Paid for Your Data Is a Bad Deal

#80

Post by ragebol » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 10:40 AM UTC

awinter-py wrote: post #16

Have never understood EFF's objection to 'pay for privacy' (covered in the middle of this article). Being able to pay for privacy is better than not being able to. It creates the beginning of accountability for cos and optionality for users.

Because privacy is a right. And being bribed into giving it up is not a solution.