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‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

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Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#71

Post by base698 »

gameswithgo wrote: post #46
varispeed wrote: post #40

The problem is that we didn't teach people about manipulation techniques because that was governments' favourite tool to control the masses. Now that anybody can reach anyone with any information, bad actors use these techniques to control people to their advantage. Governments' are now in an awkward position - ramp up education in these areas and forever give up a tool that worked for ages, or censor the information…

I don't think you can effectively inoculate the average person against this stuff with education. But I hope I am wrong. Is there any evidence it is possible?

I don't think you can educate an above average person either. Unless you've done in depth study of the techniques, and most educated people haven't either. In addition, some of the techniques work even if you know them.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#72

Post by lainga »

mistermann wrote: post #31
paxys wrote: post #24

Fits well with the current wave of authoritarianism/nationalism that has taken root all over the world. A free and open internet represents everything that a government that wishes complete control over its people would be afraid of.

> Fits well with the current wave of authoritarianism/nationalism that has taken root all over the world. Autoritarianism often goes hand in hand with nationalism, but not always. In recent history, it is the non-nationalists who seem to be most pro-censorship, does it not? Unfortunately, due to the extremely dynamic and high velocity nature of current times, this article wasn't able to get into the new flavor of mic…

Indeed, in 1848 authoritarianism and nationalism were the two major opponents on the European political stage.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#73

Post by callinOutLiars »

blockmarker wrote: post #2

Interesting article. It doesn't look at corporate/social media censorship, but government and ISP censorship is still dangerous. I found quite surprising that Japan censored The Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal for G20. What would be the reason for that? It's not like they would provoke disturbances. Also, ISP censorship on Norway. Corporate overreach, or unofficial cooperation between them and government?…

> Interesting article. It doesn't look at corporate/social media censorship, but government and ISP censorship is still dangerous.

Is a company having policies about what users can store on the company owned servers actually censorship?

I find it weird that you used “still dangerous” to describe government/ISP censorship. To me that is the most dangerous form a censorship.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#74

Post by cambalache »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #55
cambalache wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let the laws and courts determine that. Not Mark Zuckerberg or Jack Dorsey.

By wanting to use legal measures to force publishers to carry certain speech, you're not only drastically limiting the organizations' own free speech rights, but very quickly opening up a short path to punishing those who refuse to carry certain messages. Another word for that is (literally) propaganda. This whole movement of people begging the government to prevent companies from curating their content, under the gu…

I am sure forbidding Jack Dorsey to kill one of his minions also drastically limits his free will, but _c'est la vie_.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#75

Post by quasse »

gameswithgo wrote: post #46
varispeed wrote: post #40

The problem is that we didn't teach people about manipulation techniques because that was governments' favourite tool to control the masses. Now that anybody can reach anyone with any information, bad actors use these techniques to control people to their advantage. Governments' are now in an awkward position - ramp up education in these areas and forever give up a tool that worked for ages, or censor the information…

I don't think you can effectively inoculate the average person against this stuff with education. But I hope I am wrong. Is there any evidence it is possible?

Finland has specific curriculum in schools teaching kids how to critically evaluate information they find online: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/28/fact-from-fict... They study historical propaganda campaigns, how to lie with statistics, and critical thinking.

I can say that having been through a similar curriculum in high school (implemented on the initiative of a very thoughtful literature teacher) it has been one of my most valuable mental tools I possess throughout my adult life. Being able to understand and identify logical fallacies has helped me critically evaluate the information I consume many times over.

Of course, any program like this has the problem that it needs to be implemented by a trusted source, or it will be attacked as "indoctrination" (whether or not that is the truth). I can see that as a major challenge in the US where 50%+ of the population is convinced that the government is out to get them at any one time.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#76

Post by tptacek »

busterarm wrote: post #47
varispeed wrote: post #40

The problem is that we didn't teach people about manipulation techniques because that was governments' favourite tool to control the masses. Now that anybody can reach anyone with any information, bad actors use these techniques to control people to their advantage. Governments' are now in an awkward position - ramp up education in these areas and forever give up a tool that worked for ages, or censor the information…

It's worse than that. We're seeing the teaming up of governments and giant corporations to control the narrative and tell people what's true and what isn't. It's the literal definition of fascism. And you see it being championed by people as defending against "the greatest threat to our democracy".

It has never in the history of western civilization been easier for people to inject random claims into the public discourse. Neither Mike Wallace at 60 Minutes nor Otis Chandler at the LA Times would have given an inch of space for QAnon or antivax, but the "giant corporations" you allude to today do so happily, and at a scale no newspaper publisher would have imagined 50 years ago.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#77

Post by busterarm »

lilactown wrote: post #56
busterarm wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse than that. We're seeing the teaming up of governments and giant corporations to control the narrative and tell people what's true and what isn't. It's the literal definition of fascism. And you see it being championed by people as defending against "the greatest threat to our democracy".

That's not the literal definition of fascism but it's also Not Good(tm).

If you think that's the case, you don't know your history. It's exactly the tactic of Mussolini.

Edit: And when he did it, most of the western world/press fawned on him and praised him as a genius until he went and allied himself with Hitler.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#79

Post by hnracer »

disown wrote: post #36
29athrowaway wrote: post #14

Politicians look at Xi Jinping, the guy that has complete control over China for life, and say: "man, I want to have as much power as that guy".

Right on cue, a propagandist tries to turn this into a china-relate issue. What's with you people? Almost every other thread that has nothing to do with china, you people show up?

It's an article about government censorship and China is one of the most strict censorship and surveillance states on the planet. Bringing it up is on point and relevant to the topic.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#80

Post by artursapek »

leanstartupnoob wrote: post #64
artursapek wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. There's nothing "nationalist" about the type of censorship we're seeing on Twitter. If anything it's the opposite.

Which government agency is censoring Twitter? Conservatives and libertarians LOVE to bleat about property rights, but they can't handle it when private parties won't provide free advertising for right-wing conspiracies.

I'm not aware of any govt agency censoring Twitter - only conservatives complaining that Twitter is censoring their tweets.
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