Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app

huffingtonpost.in

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 80 posts

Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app

#71

Post by realshadow »

Beggers1960 wrote: post #58
ch_123 wrote: post #3

The headline has been editorialized. While I don't agree with what the authorities did here, and believe the developer was acting in good faith, the developer created an app for buying railway tickets which charged a small fee for the tickets - the issue was that he was arrested for making money off ticket sales, as opposed to "automating forms on a website"

One the rare situations where this type of issue should be - in part - rewarded to some degree.

And people who follow the rules should be punished. facepalm

Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app

#73

Post by mcherm »

inapis wrote: post #46
smdz wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a case of 'BUREAUCRATS STIFLING INNOVATION' and this is how it often looks like. He could have gone through legal channels to approve his app and would not be able to find approvals even after being able to afford those financially. Fair access is not provided by the official website. When one clicks "Book" and then suddenly get an Internal Server Error in network logs (while UI shows in-progress icon) or get…

> Fair access is not provided by the official website. When one clicks "Book" and then suddenly get an Internal Server Error in network logs (while UI shows in-progress icon) or gets logged out - where is Fair Access? If Railways gave 10 Rs for each such failure, they will go bankrupt within 2 hours. First-come-first-serve does not mean fair access when they can't fix their technical problems. I am not sure if you kn…

> their explanation does make some sense, that if IRCTC is super fast and efficient, then people with cash to spare/with computers and good internet access will hog all the tickets, denying people in rural areas a fair opportunity to purchase tickets.

If I understand correctly (and I might not) that sounds utterly absurd to me.

It sounds like you are saying "the official website is badly buggy and slow, but that's fair because some people in rural areas don't have good internet connections". I don't understand how a buggy and slow website helps those users! I would completely understand having a bug-free and fast website that reserved a certain proportion of the tickets for rural users or even for those with poor internet connections, but that doesn't sound like what you are describing.

> Wait times have gone down considerably on a lot of trains, you no longer have to plan your travel 6 months in advance, you can buy tatkal tickets without paying scalpers etc.

That certainly sounds good.

Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app

#74

Post by [deleted] »

michaelt wrote: post #63
inapis wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tickets are non-transferable but bribery is still a thing, especially where demand far outstrips the supply. Second, fake IDs are easy to make. Third, it's impractical to enforce on the ground. Indian Railways is relatively open access compared to airlines. On average, trains begin boarding 15-30 mins prior to departure and have a very high number of passengers. With an avg of 16 coaches per rake, with each coach hav…

So the government-run rail services don't provide enough capacity, the government's employees are corrupt, the government-issued ID documents are easily faked, and the solution is... to make government's train website slow and unreliable?

[deleted]

Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app

#75

Post by inapis »

mcherm wrote: post #73
inapis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fair access is not provided by the official website. When one clicks "Book" and then suddenly get an Internal Server Error in network logs (while UI shows in-progress icon) or gets logged out - where is Fair Access? If Railways gave 10 Rs for each such failure, they will go bankrupt within 2 hours. First-come-first-serve does not mean fair access when they can't fix their technical problems. I am not sure if you kn…

> their explanation does make some sense, that if IRCTC is super fast and efficient, then people with cash to spare/with computers and good internet access will hog all the tickets, denying people in rural areas a fair opportunity to purchase tickets. If I understand correctly (and I might not) that sounds utterly absurd to me. It sounds like you are saying "the official website is badly buggy and slow, but that's fa…

IRCTC is infrequently buggy (no more than an average website). They might not have optimised for poor connections and thats where most people's buggy experience is.

It is generally fast except between 10am-12pm every day (i.e. when the tatkal systems open) and that is what frustrates most people. When called out on these issues, IRCTC has consistently refused to add capacity to deal with the demand between 10am-12pm. You are correct that this could be solved by using quotas and reservations but they haven't done that. My only guess is that it is for political/bureaucratic reasons. It's easier to blame capacity issues than tell the reality.

>reserved a certain proportion of the tickets for rural users

This already happens. There are quotas of different kinds.

P.S. You know what? You are actually right. There's no technical reason for this to be the way it is. They are using that explanation as a cover for a political or legal problem or by occam's razor, they probably have a fixed budget (and not allowed to use on-demand services like AWS) and the govt won't approve the budget necessary to solve the capacity issues between 10am-12pm.

Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app

#76

Post by [deleted] »

smdz wrote: post #31
moh_maya wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. He circumvented rate-limiters that ensured that you couldn't game the booking system. The regulations very clearly prohibit this to ensure fair access. Now, one can absolutely argue about whether this form of rate limiting is the right approach, but to circumvent something that is clearly prohibited & charge money to do that is illegal. This does not mean that I think the current system is perfect OR that there…

This is a case of 'BUREAUCRATS STIFLING INNOVATION' and this is how it often looks like. He could have gone through legal channels to approve his app and would not be able to find approvals even after being able to afford those financially. Fair access is not provided by the official website. When one clicks "Book" and then suddenly get an Internal Server Error in network logs (while UI shows in-progress icon) or get…

[deleted]

Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app

#78

Post by throwawaybutwhy »

sriku wrote: post #64
moh_maya wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. He circumvented rate-limiters that ensured that you couldn't game the booking system. The regulations very clearly prohibit this to ensure fair access. Now, one can absolutely argue about whether this form of rate limiting is the right approach, but to circumvent something that is clearly prohibited & charge money to do that is illegal. This does not mean that I think the current system is perfect OR that there…

I agree this needs more nuance instead of pitching it as a david-vs-goliath. The railways has made steady progress on making it easier to ticket starting with an old mainframe system and transitioning into the web age. Such transitions at the scale of Indian Railways are not to be underestimated and it is not only about a website as real physical trains are involved. They've introduced interim measures to ensure reas…

> starting with an old mainframe system

(partly tongue-in-cheek) Maybe it was not that bad to start with (was it based on CICS?)

Are there any whitepapers or design overview presentations by CRIS or anybody else?

Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app

#79

Post by cbnotfromthere »

smdz wrote: post #56
kranner wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fair access is not provided by the official website. When one clicks "Book" and then suddenly get an Internal Server Error in network logs (while UI shows in-progress icon) or gets logged out - where is Fair Access? Inept as it is, the official website still intends to provides fair access. Just because it is buggy does not make it OK to circumvent it, especially when such circumvention only reduces access for user…

I am not saying it is OK to circumvent rules. BTW my access was revoked because they assumed I was using some automation - when I know I was not using any such thing. I am just good at computers and not even a fast typist. No response to my appeal - stopped using tatkal since then and fortunately never needed it after that.

"I am not saying it is OK to circumvent rules."

Well, I am.

Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app

#80

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

sokoloff wrote: post #69
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wouldnt keeping a fixed price solve the issue? >This does not appear to be a primarily technical problem. If these tickets sell out in 10 minutes, creating a better technical solution to let them sell out in 2 minutes isn’t actually improving anything meaningful. i am sorry i don't understand how is forcing users to buy those tickets in 10 minutes instead of efficient 2 minutes helping anybody? its not like i can jus…

> wouldnt keeping a fixed price solve the issue? It depends on what “the issue” is. If the issue is that they want to allow some poor-but-lucky people to win the right to buy tickets below the market-clearing price, then keeping a fixed price doesn’t solve that issue.

and they only way a multi billion dollar revenue earning department finds no other way to solving this is by making the experience on the website miserable for everyone. Only "luck" can help you get a ticket. bravo. hats off to the ingenuity of these people
Post reply on HN