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Vitamin D improves survival in Covid-19 elderly patients

sciencedirect.com

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Re: Vitamin D improves survival in Covid-19 elderly patients

#71

Post by AntiImperialist »

andreygrehov wrote: post #63
AntiImperialist wrote: post #62

I'm against Vitamin supplementations altogether but I'll try to share a reason why supplementing Vitamin D in particular is not a good idea. The only form of Vitamin D that matters is D3. If you are not getting that, you're just ingesting a toxin that is useless at best. Even if you are taking D3, it is not effective without K2. So, if you're just taking D3, again, it's useless at best. Let's say you're taking D3+K2…

I'm not following your explanation. > Let's say you're taking D3+K2 as oral supplementation [...] You'd have to eat a kilo (2.2 lbs) of Salmon So, what's so bad about D3+K2 if you do not want to eat a kilo of Salmon a day?

The point is our bodies haven't evolved to process large amounts of ingested D3.

Re: Vitamin D improves survival in Covid-19 elderly patients

#72

Post by aantix »

Jabbles wrote: post #47

The important factors for Vitamin D are that it's cheap to manufacture and has well known (low) risks. We have reasons to believe that it might help fight Covid, especially in deficient individuals, even if we do not have controlled studies. Making it freely available and recommended for anyone who doesn't obviously get enough already is a reasonable strategy. It might not work - the correlation may not be causal. Bu…

Does this include the cheap Vitamin-D3 that's commonly sold at Walgreens and supermarkets?

One of the tiny round capsules claims to have 2,000 IUs, which seems like a lot.

Re: Vitamin D improves survival in Covid-19 elderly patients

#73

Post by AntiImperialist »

intarga wrote: post #69
AntiImperialist wrote: post #62

I'm against Vitamin supplementations altogether but I'll try to share a reason why supplementing Vitamin D in particular is not a good idea. The only form of Vitamin D that matters is D3. If you are not getting that, you're just ingesting a toxin that is useless at best. Even if you are taking D3, it is not effective without K2. So, if you're just taking D3, again, it's useless at best. Let's say you're taking D3+K2…

> The D3 produced in your body because of sun exposure doesn't have to go through the liver. Most people don’t have access to that much sunlight, whether it’s because they have to spend most of the day working indoors, or, like me, they live in a polar region where you literally can’t get sun most of the year. While it may be better for your liver not to have more to process, I highly doubt taking vitamin supplements…

>they live in a polar region

People have been living in the polar regions for at least 10,000 years and they never took supplements and never had vitamin deficiency.

Re: Vitamin D improves survival in Covid-19 elderly patients

#74

Post by andy_ppp »

raverbashing wrote: post #43
scott_s wrote: post #38

The current discussion here seems to be about Vitamin D in general, and ignoring the study itself. In my reading, this study is weak evidence. This was not a randomized, controlled trial, but historical analyses of a natural experiment. In itself, that's not a problem: we can learn a lot from natural experiments. But I don't think this instance is much of an "experiment." As I understand it, all of the residents (96…

> as far as I can tell - do not explain why these people did not receive their normal Vitamin D supplementation. My understanding: each patient receives a bolus dose every 2 to 3 months. The intervention group had that date within 1 mo before diagnosis (or 1wk after) > Here, the "Intervention group" was defined as all COVID-19 residents who received an oral bolus of 80,000 IU vitamin D3 either in the week following t…

80000 IU seems a lot, that’s about 100 times the RDA! Not saying it’s bad just interesting...

Re: Vitamin D improves survival in Covid-19 elderly patients

#75

Post by 13415 »

xamuel wrote: post #28
13415 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vitamin D can be bought without prescription and there is currently no shortage, so why should a country (government) distribute it? Anyone who wants some can buy some. Handing out free Vitamin D is like handing out free gym passes. It's not bad, but also not really a government's responsibility except for cases when people would benefit a lot but could not afford it at all.

I always find it odd that people take such a hands-off approach when it comes to things like Vitamin D usage, while at the same time cheerleading for governments to crack down hard on things like gyms, birthday parties, church services, elementary schools. Nothing is too extreme in the name of COVID, except that somehow distributing Vitamin D would be going overboard?

I just don't get your point. No matter how you put it, it's not a government's job to distribute a cheap, universally available subscription-free substance that might benefit their citizen's health. Why does the government not distribute fruits to all citizens? Should they distribute dental floss?

Maybe yes, but only to people in real need who cannot afford any of this or need help (e.g. elderly who are afraid to leave the house due to Covid).

In my opinion, the government's job is not to act like a nanny. There shouldn't be any need for it. They can and should expect a minimum of citizen participation and autonomy.

Is that such a bizarre idea to you?

Re: Vitamin D improves survival in Covid-19 elderly patients

#76

Post by andreygrehov »

AntiImperialist wrote: post #71
andreygrehov wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not following your explanation. > Let's say you're taking D3+K2 as oral supplementation [...] You'd have to eat a kilo (2.2 lbs) of Salmon So, what's so bad about D3+K2 if you do not want to eat a kilo of Salmon a day?

The point is our bodies haven't evolved to process large amounts of ingested D3.

Ok, I see what you mean now. Interesting. Do you know how much time one would have to stay outside to get, say, 5,000 IU?

Re: Vitamin D improves survival in Covid-19 elderly patients

#77

Post by AntiImperialist »

morsch wrote: post #65
AntiImperialist wrote: post #62

I'm against Vitamin supplementations altogether but I'll try to share a reason why supplementing Vitamin D in particular is not a good idea. The only form of Vitamin D that matters is D3. If you are not getting that, you're just ingesting a toxin that is useless at best. Even if you are taking D3, it is not effective without K2. So, if you're just taking D3, again, it's useless at best. Let's say you're taking D3+K2…

The only form of Vitamin D that matters is D3. If you are not getting that, you're just ingesting a toxin that is useless at best. You say this with authority (but no sources), but it does not appear to be true. D3 seems to be preferable, and more efficacious, but that does not mean that D2 does nothing. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d2-vs-d3 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22552031/ https://pubmed.ncb…

Vitamin D2 is produced in plants because they use that. Similarly, D3 is produced in animals because they use that. Supementation of D2 has no effect on how much D3 animals end up with.

From your 3rd link:

Total serum 1,25(OH)2D did not change significantly with either treatment (p>0.05, post-treatment vs baseline).

From your second link:

only 3 of 10 possible studies included in the meta-analysis were randomized, controlled, double-blind, parallel intervention studies, which is the gold-standard design in nutrition research. Therefore, because of the lack of specific information surrounding the randomization and allocation of intervention to participants in all studies, there was an unknown degree of selection, performance, and detection bias.

A meta-analysis of RCTs indicated that supplementation with vitamin D3 had a significant and positive effect in the raising of serum 25(OH)D concentrations compared with the effect of vitamin D2 (P = 0.001).

Re: Vitamin D improves survival in Covid-19 elderly patients

#78

Post by annoyingnoob »

aantix wrote: post #72
Jabbles wrote: post #47

The important factors for Vitamin D are that it's cheap to manufacture and has well known (low) risks. We have reasons to believe that it might help fight Covid, especially in deficient individuals, even if we do not have controlled studies. Making it freely available and recommended for anyone who doesn't obviously get enough already is a reasonable strategy. It might not work - the correlation may not be causal. Bu…

Does this include the cheap Vitamin-D3 that's commonly sold at Walgreens and supermarkets? One of the tiny round capsules claims to have 2,000 IUs, which seems like a lot.

yes

Re: Vitamin D improves survival in Covid-19 elderly patients

#79

Post by anamexis »

andy_ppp wrote: post #74
raverbashing wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as far as I can tell - do not explain why these people did not receive their normal Vitamin D supplementation. My understanding: each patient receives a bolus dose every 2 to 3 months. The intervention group had that date within 1 mo before diagnosis (or 1wk after) > Here, the "Intervention group" was defined as all COVID-19 residents who received an oral bolus of 80,000 IU vitamin D3 either in the week following t…

80000 IU seems a lot, that’s about 100 times the RDA! Not saying it’s bad just interesting...

That's what a "bolus dose" is, a single large dose to raise the levels in the blood to target levels in one go, as opposed to daily maintenance doses.

Re: Vitamin D improves survival in Covid-19 elderly patients

#80

Post by thinkingemote »

andreygrehov wrote: post #76
AntiImperialist wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is our bodies haven't evolved to process large amounts of ingested D3.

Ok, I see what you mean now. Interesting. Do you know how much time one would have to stay outside to get, say, 5,000 IU?

You can use this https://fastrt.nilu.no/VitD_quartMEDandMED_v2.html to calculate how much to get the recommended amount from the Sun which I think is 1000 IU

I think 4000 IU is sun burn territory for a single sitting outside. But I only just scanned the website above.

I don't know how long it lasts, or if its cumulative, but I heard Vit D is stored in your fat so theres a bit of storage going on.

Perhaps therefore, sitting outside in Summer each day during lunch would be enough to get 5000 IU / week.

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