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The Hyperloop’s Only Destination Is a Capitalist Hellscape

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Re: The Hyperloop’s Only Destination Is a Capitalist Hellscape

#71

Post by Lramseyer »

One issue with the hyperloop that nobody seems to talk about is safety. How do you handle ruptures in the tube? How do you evacuate? and What do you do if your pod loses pressure? This isn't like a 737 where you can give people oxygen while you drop to 10,000 feet when you lose pressure. That only works because at 35,000 ft the pressure is still high enough that you can breathe a higher concentration of oxygen for a short period of time, and not get hypoxia or decompression sickness.

Sure, you can add safety re-pressurization valves and escape hatches, but all of those seals are points of failure that need to be inspected and maintained across the entire length of the tube.

Re: The Hyperloop’s Only Destination Is a Capitalist Hellscape

#72

Post by bigbubba »

nickff wrote: post #69
smogcutter wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be a better analogy if the changing technology weren’t “it’s like a train except for fewer people and also it costs more”.

Well, an alternative view is that "it's an airplane but more efficient and with lower operating costs". Everything from bicycles to commercial aviation is on the spectrum of people-movers (with alternative uses as well).

I don't think comparisons to airplanes make much sense. While early airplanes may have only been accessible to the rich, at the same time the infrastructure required was very minimal. During the early stages of the aviation industry, not much more was needed than a field or lake. A minimally viable Hyperloop for the rich requires billions of dollars of infrastructure.

Re: The Hyperloop’s Only Destination Is a Capitalist Hellscape

#73

Post by pstuart »

bigbubba wrote: post #55
pstuart wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More solar is good, but we have space for it elsewhere. It's cheaper and easier to have roads be "plain old roads".

I think that's the point. The 'technology' seems optimized for creating hype on reddit, not actually being commercially viable.

If it worked readily/economically enough as envisioned the hype would be well justified.

Solar roadways only value add is "we found more space to put panels" and that's not a serious problem as there's plenty of space for that.

Roads are already costly and this would just make it worse.

Re: The Hyperloop’s Only Destination Is a Capitalist Hellscape

#74

Post by bigbubba »

pstuart wrote: post #73
bigbubba wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's the point. The 'technology' seems optimized for creating hype on reddit, not actually being commercially viable.

If it worked readily/economically enough as envisioned the hype would be well justified. Solar roadways only value add is "we found more space to put panels" and that's not a serious problem as there's plenty of space for that. Roads are already costly and this would just make it worse.

I think the hype comes mostly from credulous futurists who love the sci-fi aesthetic, not from people who actually think critically about the potential of the technology. It takes a serious suspension of critical thinking to believe roads made out of solar panels isn't a really dumb idea.

Re: The Hyperloop’s Only Destination Is a Capitalist Hellscape

#75

Post by opo »

syntaxing wrote: post #28
OldHand2018 wrote: post #8

> The company celebrated the achievement by releasing a modest video comparing it to, among other things, the moment the Wright Brothers flew the first planes. Just so everyone knows, the Wright Brothers became well-known in the aviation community based on their work developing and flying gliders and inventing the 3-axis control system. Once they actually started flying powered airplanes, they became secretive and ev…

Not only that, if I recall correctly the Wright brothers actually died penniless. They tried patenting and protecting their flight controls idea which is to rotate the wings. It was impractical and inefficient so never really got anywhere. It wasn't until Germany creating a mature aileron system which really pushed flight technology forward (the pressure of War and military helps a lot too).

>...Not only that, if I recall correctly the Wright brothers actually died penniless.

I don't think that is true.

Wilbur died in 1912 in the middle of the patent disputes.

>...Orville made his last flight as a pilot in 1918 in a 1911 Model B. He retired from business and became an elder statesman of aviation, serving on various official boards and committees, including the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA), predecessor agency to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and Aeronautical Chamber of Commerce (ACCA), predecessor to the Aerospace Industries Association (AIA).

>...Orville Wright served NACA for 28 years. In 1930, he received the first Daniel Guggenheim Medal established in 1928 by the Daniel Guggenheim Fund for the Promotion of Aeronautics. In 1936, he was elected a member of the National Academy of Sciences.

>...They tried patenting and protecting their flight controls idea which is to rotate the wings. It was impractical and inefficient so never really got anywhere.

>...In January 1914, a U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the verdict against the Curtiss company, which continued to avoid penalties through legal tactics. Orville apparently felt vindicated by the decision, and much to the frustration of company executives, he did not push vigorously for further legal action to ensure a manufacturing monopoly. In fact, he was planning to sell the company and departed in 1915. In 1917, with World War I underway, the U.S. government pressured the industry to form a cross-licensing organization, the Manufacturers Aircraft Association, to which member companies paid a blanket fee for the use of aviation patents, including the original and subsequent Wright patents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers

Re: The Hyperloop’s Only Destination Is a Capitalist Hellscape

#76

Post by CyberDildonics »

tonywastaken wrote: post #47
CyberDildonics wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric buses are mainstream in china.

That's a stretch. And China is 2nd world.

Why is it a stretch?

I didn't say china was a third world country, but they do have 421,000 electric buses, which means that it is already a country where electric vehicles are mainstream.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-15/in-shift-...

Re: The Hyperloop’s Only Destination Is a Capitalist Hellscape

#77

Post by nickff »

bigbubba wrote: post #72
nickff wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, an alternative view is that "it's an airplane but more efficient and with lower operating costs". Everything from bicycles to commercial aviation is on the spectrum of people-movers (with alternative uses as well).

I don't think comparisons to airplanes make much sense. While early airplanes may have only been accessible to the rich, at the same time the infrastructure required was very minimal. During the early stages of the aviation industry, not much more was needed than a field or lake. A minimally viable Hyperloop for the rich requires billions of dollars of infrastructure.

I agree that these comparisons are not direct analogies, which is why I said "I don't really have a direct analogy (possibly due to a lack of 'vision')".

Re: The Hyperloop’s Only Destination Is a Capitalist Hellscape

#78

Post by plorkyeran »

WJW wrote: post #68
aqme28 wrote: post #31

I know there are a lot of Musk fans on this site, so can someone explain to me the benefits of this style of hyperloop over a train?

They're faster. That's pretty much the entire attraction.

They might theoretically be faster eventually. Currently they're significantly slower than existing production rail lines.

Re: The Hyperloop’s Only Destination Is a Capitalist Hellscape

#80

Post by bassman9000 »

aqme28 wrote: post #39
nickff wrote: post #11

This article is completely lacking in historical perspective. There was a time when commercial aviation was a luxury reserved for the rich; one need only look at the configurations of aircraft like the DC-2 and the Boeing 317 to understand that. Between 1935 and 2020, flight became a tool to help enrich the lives of masses of middle-class people. The hyperloop has a relatively small chance of positively impacting man…

I don't follow your analogy. How is this to the train what the plane was to an oceanic voyage?

Most people won't take a train to do Austin-NY, or LA-Seattle.

With the hyperloop, the rich people would at first. Once scaled, everyone would. Plane can't beat downtown-to-downtown.

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