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I sold Baremetrics

baremetrics.com

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Re: I sold Baremetrics

#71

Post by Veen »

nxmnxm99 wrote: post #56
pc86 wrote: post #12

I know there's a trope about the naive founder getting screwed by shifty-eyed VC sharks, but it really sounds like Josh screwed his investors and employees here. > I wanted them to at least get their money back, but ultimately, for the $4m purchase price to work, we’d need to ask them to walk on their [$800,000] investment. He clearly didn't want it very badly, then. Nearly $3 million wasn't enough? That's about $420…

The fact that people on hacker news are angry about this cracks me up. The vast majority of folks here really are the crotchety programmers. Yes, a founder gets compensated significantly more than early employees. Massive shocker. If those early employees were talented enough, they’d be founders getting compensated. I don’t know when this dramatic shift happened to Americans to believe building a successful company i…

That rests on the perverse assumption that founders are the most talented and deserving individuals in the universe, and everyone one else should be happy to uncomplainingly serve the interests of these fabulous ubermensch.

To say that’s a naive and inaccurate view of the world would be an understatement.

Re: I sold Baremetrics

#72

Post by bob33212 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #61
pc86 wrote: post #12

I know there's a trope about the naive founder getting screwed by shifty-eyed VC sharks, but it really sounds like Josh screwed his investors and employees here. > I wanted them to at least get their money back, but ultimately, for the $4m purchase price to work, we’d need to ask them to walk on their [$800,000] investment. He clearly didn't want it very badly, then. Nearly $3 million wasn't enough? That's about $420…

Not making any other assumptions here, but I think this is a great example of something that's become more and more obvious to HNers over the past few years: from a financial perspective, if you have an opportunity to join a FAANG vs a startup, it pretty much almost always makes financial sense (usually much more sense) to join the FAANG. And since it usually makes a LOT more financial sense, it can often make a lot…

A startup makes sense if you are looking to do something different or to expand you skillset. Working at a major corporation can feel stifling over time. The important thing to understand that there is almost 0% chance that your "1-4%" ownership will ever be more than 6 figures.

Re: I sold Baremetrics

#73

Post by nxmnxm99 »

Veen wrote: post #71
nxmnxm99 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that people on hacker news are angry about this cracks me up. The vast majority of folks here really are the crotchety programmers. Yes, a founder gets compensated significantly more than early employees. Massive shocker. If those early employees were talented enough, they’d be founders getting compensated. I don’t know when this dramatic shift happened to Americans to believe building a successful company i…

That rests on the perverse assumption that founders are the most talented and deserving individuals in the universe, and everyone one else should be happy to uncomplainingly serve the interests of these fabulous ubermensch. To say that’s a naive and inaccurate view of the world would be an understatement.

Or, you know, negotiate higher equity and stop bitching and moralizing when your payout isn’t high enough.

Re: I sold Baremetrics

#74

Post by twox2 »

falcolas wrote: post #69
twox2 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's peanuts, but it's also REALITY. Few people get big windfalls working for startups as employees or even founders, but maybe you get a little bonus on top of your salary if there's an exit.

Few employees may get a windfall in reality, but it doesn’t make it easier to see (nor does it justify the founder’s choices). Those employees are just as responsible for the company’s success as the founder is; it sucks to see them get shafted while the founder walks away with “fuck you” money.

Agreed, which is why it's good that this stuff is being shared. It's a datapoint to consider for those of us as we make career choices. But let's face it, if we are not founders, then we are just "the help".

Re: I sold Baremetrics

#75

Post by tngranados »

elric wrote: post #65
pc86 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It averages out to $420k/yr. There's this sentiment on HN that "all you have to do" is get a job at a big tech company and you'll make a million dollars a year. It's idiotic, and not true. Yes, there are people who make $500k+ writing code in a cubicle for 40 hours a week. They are the vast, vast, vast minority compared to the people a) making $100-200k doing the same thing; b) making that $500k+ doing everything but…

As a Belgian, I can't help but look at these numbers in disbelief. 100-200k/annum for churning out code 40 hours a week? Where do I sign up for this? I'm the best paid employee I know, work insane hours, and I'm not even in that bracket. Addendum: it's very rare to make more than twice the average wage in Belgium as an employee. It's a different matter if you're self employed.

You need to move to Silicon Valley for that, but cost of living and lose of other benefits of living in Belgium might outweight the higher paid. You can try Switzerland if you want 6 digits salary in Europe.

Re: I sold Baremetrics

#76

Post by nxmnxm99 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #63
nxmnxm99 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that people on hacker news are angry about this cracks me up. The vast majority of folks here really are the crotchety programmers. Yes, a founder gets compensated significantly more than early employees. Massive shocker. If those early employees were talented enough, they’d be founders getting compensated. I don’t know when this dramatic shift happened to Americans to believe building a successful company i…

I respectfully very much disagree. Even Sam Altman has been arguing that founders should give more equity to startups, mainly because employees who are usually sold on "equity dreams" are all coming to realize those equity dreams are peanuts.

“Even Sam Altman” really, the patron saint of getting credit for other people’s work and risk agrees with that waffley sentiment? Shocker

Re: I sold Baremetrics

#77

Post by czbond »

marcinzm wrote: post #47
pc86 wrote: post #12

I know there's a trope about the naive founder getting screwed by shifty-eyed VC sharks, but it really sounds like Josh screwed his investors and employees here. > I wanted them to at least get their money back, but ultimately, for the $4m purchase price to work, we’d need to ask them to walk on their [$800,000] investment. He clearly didn't want it very badly, then. Nearly $3 million wasn't enough? That's about $420…

Based on the numbers employees got 7.5% of the payout. There seems to be 5 current employees on LinkedIn and possibly some earlier employees who bought out their equity. That seems roughly a standard equity split for employees which just goes to show you how depressingly low the standard equity grants are for employees. As people say, don't join a startup to get rich unless you're the founder.

Which is true, but so is my phrase of "If you want to go broke, found a startup". It cuts very deep on the south side often for founders - whereas employees do get a paycheck. Founders will go YEARS often with little to no income.

Re: I sold Baremetrics

#78

Post by marcinzm »

nxmnxm99 wrote: post #73
Veen wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That rests on the perverse assumption that founders are the most talented and deserving individuals in the universe, and everyone one else should be happy to uncomplainingly serve the interests of these fabulous ubermensch. To say that’s a naive and inaccurate view of the world would be an understatement.

Or, you know, negotiate higher equity and stop bitching and moralizing when your payout isn’t high enough.

So one is supposed to negotiate for higher equity but at the same time those who have gone through it aren't supposed to discuss their experience and payout?

I suspect you're also one of those people who says employees should just have negotiated better salaries but also fires them for discussing salaries.

Re: I sold Baremetrics

#79

Post by LandR »

elric wrote: post #65
pc86 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It averages out to $420k/yr. There's this sentiment on HN that "all you have to do" is get a job at a big tech company and you'll make a million dollars a year. It's idiotic, and not true. Yes, there are people who make $500k+ writing code in a cubicle for 40 hours a week. They are the vast, vast, vast minority compared to the people a) making $100-200k doing the same thing; b) making that $500k+ doing everything but…

As a Belgian, I can't help but look at these numbers in disbelief. 100-200k/annum for churning out code 40 hours a week? Where do I sign up for this? I'm the best paid employee I know, work insane hours, and I'm not even in that bracket. Addendum: it's very rare to make more than twice the average wage in Belgium as an employee. It's a different matter if you're self employed.

Same here in the UK.

I know a couple of guys in the UK who are essentially just coding all day, in full time jobs, making £100k a year.

BUt it's very rare IMO, I'm not even on 50% of that.

Re: I sold Baremetrics

#80

Post by howlgarnish »

falcolas wrote: post #36
Shpigford wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the employees and when they joined and if they exercised stock options or not. Big range from a few thousand to over $80,000.

$80k for how many years of work? Unless it’s one, I’m with the parent. I’m sure it’s all legal and ‘equitable’ according to the terms, but that’s peanuts of a return for somewhere between 4 and 7 years of work (based off a typical vesting schedule).

No, it's an $80k bonus on top of the salaries they got for X years of work, and they're all still employed as well.
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