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Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

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Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't accept the premise that we are qualified to judge the veracity of another man's truth. Nor do all those who protest fit within your generalization of assuming to have an exclusive license on objective truth. There's a fair amount of people who simply like to bounce ideas around and have a discussion.

The noise is significant enough that the signal is irrelevant.

If I understand your implication correctly, I'll say:

Discussion becomes futile if we can't engage with good faith with those we disagree with. Assuming that someone's view is 'noise' is starting from a position of bad faith. If you take the position that you have an exclusive license on truthiness when debunking/disagreeing, then you're no better.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#72

Sounds good to me. Twitter is not really slowing down the like action, but it will say to you only “hey, this may be a fake news, are you sure you want like it?”. People are stupid, in a perfect world this is useless but we live here...

Ironicaly you missed the most important point: who decides what is fake news? You still don't get it that _NO ONE_ can claim they know what is/is not fake news because everyone has their own incentives.

I agree.

Example: The famous photo of Anderson Cooper standing in a ditch, pretending as if there was a catstrophic flood. (Really, the water was only a few inches deep.) Would Twitter flag that one?

It's a given they'd flag Trump a bunch. How about Joe Biden saying he would not ban fracking? Would Twitter flag that one?

Twitter is going to have a very hard time making anybody happy with this idea.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#73

Sounds good to me. Twitter is not really slowing down the like action, but it will say to you only “hey, this may be a fake news, are you sure you want like it?”. People are stupid, in a perfect world this is useless but we live here...

Ironicaly you missed the most important point: who decides what is fake news? You still don't get it that _NO ONE_ can claim they know what is/is not fake news because everyone has their own incentives.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/03/fake-robocalls-give-us-voters...

> Officials in Michigan reported on Tuesday that citizens of Flint, a predominantly black city, were receiving calls telling them to vote Wednesday, and not on election day. The calls are now being investigated by the FBI.

That is misinformation, no ifs, no buts.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The noise is significant enough that the signal is irrelevant.

If I understand your implication correctly, I'll say: Discussion becomes futile if we can't engage with good faith with those we disagree with. Assuming that someone's view is 'noise' is starting from a position of bad faith. If you take the position that you have an exclusive license on truthiness when debunking/disagreeing, then you're no better.

I think you misunderstand if you think I think I have the objective truth. I see it more as a spectrum and within the spectrum there are bounds of rationality. If you happen to fall outside of that spectrum I’m not going to pay attention to you for long. Life’s too short to waste time on nonsense. I don’t owe anyone my attention.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#75

The culture of any community is shaped by the worst behaviour that is tolerated. Related: Why unmoderated online forums always degenerate into fascism https://www.salon.com/2019/08/05/why-unmoderated-online-foru...

But this is historically inaccurate. The issue of forums becoming hateful echo chambers is a new phenomenon, not a time tested one. Digg wasn't a terrible hateful echo chamber, reddit was not, most topic oriented forums are not, lots of alternative sites springing up nowadays are not, Facebook, MySpace, the list goes on. No, the phenomenon that lasted really only a few years was due to the fact that the first Diaspor…

I've been around since BBS:es, and I can tell you that the success in avoiding hateful cesspools was very much linked to heavy moderation. The internet isn't very old in the grand scheme of things, but what you call "historically inaccurate" has been accurate for as long as there's been people on the internet.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#76

The culture of any community is shaped by the worst behaviour that is tolerated. Related: Why unmoderated online forums always degenerate into fascism https://www.salon.com/2019/08/05/why-unmoderated-online-foru...

Another reading of this (which I don't agree with) is that "liberal" ideas need censorship to survive. Which one is the correct interpretation is almost impossible to determine without sophisticated methods of testing.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#77
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok firstly, it's policing speech, not thought. Secondly, it's not policing it, it's basically putting a speed-bump. Thirdly, Twitter defines misinformation -it's their platform, they get to make that call. Also, people talk about "Fake news" from mainstream media, but actually, the examples of the mainstream media reporting literally incorreect information is pretty rare, and has real world consequences when it happe…

> Twitter defines misinformation -it's their platform, they get to make that call. Sure. But if they choose to do that, it is not a place where you can expect to share ideas and have real discussions with people. It becomes a place where perception is crafted, something those of us who actually want to use the internet as opposed to a TV channel are trying to avoid.

Sure it is. HN has a whole plethora of rules that are purely to the taste of the website owner, I can still have plenty of real discussions and share ideas. I understand there's limits to the discussion and if I want to discuss more extreme stuff I can go to other sites.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#78

"Show me the incentives and I'll show you the outcome." This whole ad driven attention economy is probably as dangerous of an invention as nuclear weapons. We're caught in a state of psychosis and individually none of us can do anything to fight the billions of dollars spent on advertising that tries to make us feel inadequate. Targeted ads and recommendation engines need to be banned. I know some people say they lik…

Individually we can do something to fight it. If you can't block the ads, learn to ignore them.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#79
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironicaly you missed the most important point: who decides what is fake news? You still don't get it that _NO ONE_ can claim they know what is/is not fake news because everyone has their own incentives.

You still don't get it that _NO ONE_ can claim they know what is/is not fake news because everyone has their own incentives. This is precisely why it's important that Twitter calls out when things are stated as fact without evidence. Twitter never actually say things are fake; they say things are baseless and without evidence. If you want to post things that are influential you simply need to back that claim up with…

That would be fine if they didn't preferentially apply that call out only to certain groups of people.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#80
post #70
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain.

Why would a free-speech "purist" be okay with authorities having special abilities to append emphasized messages below other messages? People that care deeply about free-speech tend to want a level playing ground for every person in a discussion, and to not have platforms that have a centralised bias for or against different messages or identities. It's disingenuous to tell a bunch of people with principles towards d…

If Twitter is an “authority”, what is the President of the United States?

Twitter has a platform whose design inherently amplifies the voices of high-profile people, and consequently dampens the voices of the non-high-profile. Why be OK with that, and yet somehow not be OK with minor design adjustments that provide a small, partial, counterweight?

You cast this as a “special ability” but isn’t this simply the design of the platform, as decided by the people who control the platform, and whose job it is to decide what the platform is? And how is a platform design dictated by someone else for their own benefit somehow more valid?

Perhaps you don’t know, but as President, Trump is given special privileges on Twitter, and is exempt from virtually all the normal TOS. By basic fairness in free speech principles, you would be arguing that he be held to the same standard as everyone else. That would have had gotten him banned from Twitter a long time ago.

Anyway, just to clear your thinking, think of what a truly fair speech platform would be like. It would, e.g., ensure that any message I or you posted would be just as prominent as one Trump or other high-profile person posted. Of course, such platforms aren’t of interest to high-profile people. They want a platform like Twitter where the rules are tilted in their favor. The only thing being argued about here is how massively in their favor the platform is made. That’s fine, but it doesn’t have anything to do with free speech. You express a desire for a relatively level playing field, but if that’s the case, why even talk about Twitter, which has never been even remotely about that?

> straw-manned

I’m afraid you’re getting lost here. I’m not straw-manning you or anyone. You can have any stance you want. It’s just up to you to express it.

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