No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This • Hacker News Board

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#71

Post by ntucker » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 7:56 AM UTC

3pt14159 wrote: post #63

ganafagol wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your sentiment, but this is not the right reaction. It won't improve anything. What's the point of open source if companies just steal it, build billion dollar industries on top, and then lock everything down? You are free to adjust the license to prevent this. But then tomorrow everybody comes and rants about that the GPL is too restrictive. That's the price we pay for this. It's the license that keeps…

I don't want GPL. I want a license that prevents unpaid use by any entity that has any stakeholder worth more than a billion USD. That's it. That's all I want. MIT-Billionaires. Want to take funding from A16Z? That's a million a year for the license or something that maybe scales with a market cap just to level the playing field between a funded startup and Apple Computers. Don't get me wrong, I love Apple, but I don…

So write the license this way. I think it's a fabulous idea.

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#72

Post by _pmf_ » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 7:56 AM UTC

aboringusername wrote: post #19

[this comment was deleted as HN doesn't pay me to contribute to the discussion]

> Yet, we continue to pay for our daily basics; food, water, electric…Yet we’ve decided for some insane reason that all this programming work the world’s richest companies rely on is worth absolutely nothing.

Stop making stuff open source, and there will be more paid jobs, and the paid jobs that exist will be valued more because they are no longer just "plumbing together open source components". Easy as that.

Will the software be higher quality? No. But that does not seem to be a concern anyway.

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#73

Post by matlock » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 7:57 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #60

MaximumYComb wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Australia the streaming options for music/video are better than our previous options for CD's/cable. A three month subscription to Spotify costs less than a single album would cost me 20 years ago.... not even account for inflation. A monthly Netflix subscription is 20% of the price that cable would cost here 5 years ago.

> Spotify You don't own the music. You can't share it, use your own software to analyze, shuffle, remix it, etc. > Netflix subscription But now there's Hulu, Disney+, Amazon Prime, HBO Go, Showtime Anytime, Peacock Premium, etc. Except now instead of one easy to use interface to access it all, it's spread out all over the place and inconsistent as hell. And more expensive!

> You don't own the music. You can't share it, use your own software to analyze, shuffle, remix it, etc

I'm a consumer of music, not a creator so I don't care that I don't own it. There are tons of ways creators can analyze, shuffle, remix or do whatever with it, but as a pure consumer Spotify is simply much better for me than CDs. I never cared about owning Music, CDs were always just a transport Medium so I can listen to the music.

> But now there's Hulu, Disney+, Amazon Prime, HBO Go, Showtime Anytime, Peacock Premium, etc. Except now instead of one easy to use interface to access it all, it's spread out all over the place and inconsistent as hell. And more expensive!

They aren't though because you can be selective and cancel anytime and resubscribe. And you can watch exactly what you want at any time compared to cable. As a consumer it is way better because there is way more choice and competition at the moment.

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#74

Post by naniwaduni » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 7:57 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #45

ganafagol wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your sentiment, but this is not the right reaction. It won't improve anything. What's the point of open source if companies just steal it, build billion dollar industries on top, and then lock everything down? You are free to adjust the license to prevent this. But then tomorrow everybody comes and rants about that the GPL is too restrictive. That's the price we pay for this. It's the license that keeps…

GPLv4 needs to address a number of new problems: * "any user data serviced by this software must be easily exportable; no attempt must be made to block other 3rd party companies or services from consuming this data" * "if this software is itself sold as a service, any automation or tooling built in service of this system must also be made available as open source" * "any devices using this software must not actively…

GPLv4 cannot exist. The GPL was a clever hack the first time it became popular, but it is fundamentally a singleton that cannot be instantiated more than once.

Not like we didn't try.

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#75

Post by marcus_holmes » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 7:57 AM UTC

aboringusername wrote: post #19

[this comment was deleted as HN doesn't pay me to contribute to the discussion]

I realise what is happening. I realise there are thousands of people whose work contributed to being able to do this.

I also realise that some of those people are getting pissed off and annoyed that their contribution isn't being recognised (see TFA for details). And those people have the ability to "inject code that steals secrets" into my code base and cause massive headaches for me.

Which is why I'm extremely careful which dependencies I use, and don't use dependencies whenever possible.

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#76

Post by neltnerb » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 7:57 AM UTC

MaximumYComb wrote: post #38

echelon wrote: post #21

Seriously. What's the point of open source if companies just steal it, build billion dollar industries on top, and then lock everything down? Apple is telling us we can't run our own software on their goddamned devices, yet they built their empire on open source. Look at Facebook, Google, Amazon. They've extracted all the blood they can and given us back scraps. AWS is repackaged software you pay more for. Yes, it's…

Here in Australia the streaming options for music/video are better than our previous options for CD's/cable. A three month subscription to Spotify costs less than a single album would cost me 20 years ago.... not even account for inflation. A monthly Netflix subscription is 20% of the price that cable would cost here 5 years ago.

You might honestly be right, for anyone who expects to buy five albums a year. The downside being that all the music you've "bought" might just disappear if the service goes down. It might be worth it, but the best of both worlds would be nice.

I'm not sure what that should be, but unlimited local copies of everything for a small amount of money doesn't sound fair -- but Spotify hardly deserves a big cut of it either.

A pickle indeed, if only there were a service that was more of a co-op of artists. Happy to hear recommendations, I'm using soundcloud still.

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#77

Post by orangeshark » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 7:57 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #45

ganafagol wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your sentiment, but this is not the right reaction. It won't improve anything. What's the point of open source if companies just steal it, build billion dollar industries on top, and then lock everything down? You are free to adjust the license to prevent this. But then tomorrow everybody comes and rants about that the GPL is too restrictive. That's the price we pay for this. It's the license that keeps…

GPLv4 needs to address a number of new problems: * "any user data serviced by this software must be easily exportable; no attempt must be made to block other 3rd party companies or services from consuming this data" * "if this software is itself sold as a service, any automation or tooling built in service of this system must also be made available as open source" * "any devices using this software must not actively…

last one is sort of basically what GPLv3 has.

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#78

Post by fabianhjr » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 7:58 AM UTC

3pt14159 wrote: post #63

ganafagol wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your sentiment, but this is not the right reaction. It won't improve anything. What's the point of open source if companies just steal it, build billion dollar industries on top, and then lock everything down? You are free to adjust the license to prevent this. But then tomorrow everybody comes and rants about that the GPL is too restrictive. That's the price we pay for this. It's the license that keeps…

I don't want GPL. I want a license that prevents unpaid use by any entity that has any stakeholder worth more than a billion USD. That's it. That's all I want. MIT-Billionaires. Want to take funding from A16Z? That's a million a year for the license or something that maybe scales with a market cap just to level the playing field between a funded startup and Apple Computers. Don't get me wrong, I love Apple, but I don…

May I suggest something along the lines of Dmytri Kleiner's Peer Production License?

As discussed more generally on P2P Foundation: http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Copyfarleft

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#79

Post by kgwgk » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 7:58 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #60

MaximumYComb wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Australia the streaming options for music/video are better than our previous options for CD's/cable. A three month subscription to Spotify costs less than a single album would cost me 20 years ago.... not even account for inflation. A monthly Netflix subscription is 20% of the price that cable would cost here 5 years ago.

> Spotify You don't own the music. You can't share it, use your own software to analyze, shuffle, remix it, etc. > Netflix subscription But now there's Hulu, Disney+, Amazon Prime, HBO Go, Showtime Anytime, Peacock Premium, etc. Except now instead of one easy to use interface to access it all, it's spread out all over the place and inconsistent as hell. And more expensive!

> instead of one easy to use interface to access it all

one easy to use interface to access whatever was on

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#80

Post by jprupp » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 7:58 AM UTC

Yes, a company will pay you to work on open source projects that are considered valuable for that company.

I am surprised that Marak hasn't been offered a satisfactory job that pays six figures already. Perhaps he makes some mistakes while applying, or luck hasn't been on his side.