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Apple removes then restores DoNotPay app in the App Store

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Re: Apple removes then restores DoNotPay app in the App Store

#71

Post by Someone »

alexvoda wrote: post #47
russli1993 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, on consoles, the platform holder has to approve every single game to be made into discs. If your game violates Sony and Microsoft's rules, they won't let you make the discs. Its same with the app store.

Those restrictions are made through use of trademarks, limiting access to development tools through contracts and code signing. First can be sidestepped by not mentioning the trademarks of the platform holder anywhere. The second can be side stepped through reverse engineering. Third can eventually be hacked out of the device (like the recent encryption key reveal on Intel CPU's) and was not applicable to older gener…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_signing#Unsigned_code_in_...:

“Most console games have to be signed with a secret key designed by the console maker or the game will not load on the console. There are several methods to get unsigned code to execute which include software exploits, the use of a modchip, a technique known as the swap trick or running a softmod.”

I don’t see how iOS is different here.

Re: Apple removes then restores DoNotPay app in the App Store

#72

Post by olyjohn »

cblconfederate wrote: post #64
aembleton wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you capture their email address which isn't necessary for most apps.

I m surprised by the resilience of email as a communication channel. We need to extend it to carry notifications and ephemeral messages as well. There's no need to lock up tech behind the gates of google and apple

It's resilient because it's the only service that isn't centrally managed by one company, and anybody can federate and set up an e-mail system that communicates with all the other e-mail systems.

It's the same reason SMS is still around, because it's the only communications tool that can send a message to any cell phone.

Re: Apple removes then restores DoNotPay app in the App Store

#73

Post by maratc »

onion2k wrote: post #25
hyperbovine wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antitrust with 13% market share. Good luck explaining that one to the judge.

"Apple controls 100% of the iOS software market. This antitrust case is not about phones, instead it's about iOS software, and we shall demonstrate very clearly how Apple are abusing their total monopoly on that particular product." That was really easy, and I'm not even a lawyer.

“Well plaintiffs always want me to define relevant markets as narrowly as possible. It helps their case.” — Judge YGR on Epic/Apple case.

Re: Apple removes then restores DoNotPay app in the App Store

#74

Post by enos_feedler »

alexvoda wrote: post #59
enos_feedler wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define computing. I am free to write and distribute computation via Javascript in Safari. Should computing be lower level? How low? From the bootchain? Who decides at what layer “free computing” should be wedged into a product? Why can’t Apple make that decision for themselves?

Because they are making that decision for users. The devices are owned by users since the day of purchase. Why can’t users make that decision for themselves? Granted, many people choose to buy Apple devices because they do not desire general computing devices and instead desire appliances. But giving up that control erodes ownership itself. A device not fully controlled by you is not fully owned by you. You may own a…

How many product decisions are made on your behalf between the inception of product specification and distribution to you? Just because you purchase the final thing doesn't entitle you to have control over product decisions. I don't think it makes sense to entangle ownership and programmability as a product feature.

Your reference to "general computing device" here is a concept that a particular market identifies with (you being in that market). Attached to it is some kind of concept of free/open. Apple will tell you their devices are general computing devices. I am currently playing around with lidar sensors in an iPhone 12 pro by writing code and pushing it onto my device. The functionality I can build is pretty arbitrary and I would call it general computing. I would agree with Apple.

Re: Apple removes then restores DoNotPay app in the App Store

#75

Post by enos_feedler »

alexvoda wrote: post #61
DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... you can completely reprogram the device, if you have the tools and knowledge for it. Apple has no obligation to make this process easy or even possible, and if the users still buy their products, they clearly don't care enough about these restrictions.

Not caring is precisely the problem. A problem that leads to erosion of ownership. And this leads to a form of communism. Apple, Google, etc. are in some ways similar to the state in communist regimes. They own everything but they promise to give you fair access until they don't.

I don't think it is about "not caring". Apple cares intensely about the products they build taking into the needs of their addressable market. There are 1000s of product decisions made between inception and distribution into your hands. I don't believe that the one decision around open and free programmability of native OS-level applications has any association with ownership to them.

Re: Apple removes then restores DoNotPay app in the App Store

#76

Post by chacha2 »

alexvoda wrote: post #61
DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... you can completely reprogram the device, if you have the tools and knowledge for it. Apple has no obligation to make this process easy or even possible, and if the users still buy their products, they clearly don't care enough about these restrictions.

Not caring is precisely the problem. A problem that leads to erosion of ownership. And this leads to a form of communism. Apple, Google, etc. are in some ways similar to the state in communist regimes. They own everything but they promise to give you fair access until they don't.

How is a capitalist monopoly communism? These operating systems are the companies private property, they can do what they want with them.

The only way to prevent them is by abolishing their property and putting them in the public domain.

Re: Apple removes then restores DoNotPay app in the App Store

#77

Post by chacha2 »

enos_feedler wrote: post #74
alexvoda wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are making that decision for users. The devices are owned by users since the day of purchase. Why can’t users make that decision for themselves? Granted, many people choose to buy Apple devices because they do not desire general computing devices and instead desire appliances. But giving up that control erodes ownership itself. A device not fully controlled by you is not fully owned by you. You may own a…

How many product decisions are made on your behalf between the inception of product specification and distribution to you? Just because you purchase the final thing doesn't entitle you to have control over product decisions. I don't think it makes sense to entangle ownership and programmability as a product feature. Your reference to "general computing device" here is a concept that a particular market identifies wit…

A duopoly of news organizations that can pick what facts count as news would be a disaster for democracy, is a duopoly of tech companies getting to pick what protocols and software can exist any better? The decentralized Web never could have been created in this atmosphere.

Re: Apple removes then restores DoNotPay app in the App Store

#78

Post by machello13 »

alexvoda wrote: post #47
russli1993 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, on consoles, the platform holder has to approve every single game to be made into discs. If your game violates Sony and Microsoft's rules, they won't let you make the discs. Its same with the app store.

Those restrictions are made through use of trademarks, limiting access to development tools through contracts and code signing. First can be sidestepped by not mentioning the trademarks of the platform holder anywhere. The second can be side stepped through reverse engineering. Third can eventually be hacked out of the device (like the recent encryption key reveal on Intel CPU's) and was not applicable to older gener…

Aren't all of those also true with iOS? Have you heard of Jailbreaking?

Re: Apple removes then restores DoNotPay app in the App Store

#79

Post by machello13 »

jimnotgym wrote: post #28
floatingatoll wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making an error, and then correcting that error 4 hours later, is certainly many things. "Unfathomably rapid" comes to mind as my first response.

If he hadn't got a large following on Twitter would it have been rapid?

Hard to know, since if he didn't have a large following, we wouldn't have heard about it either way.

Re: Apple removes then restores DoNotPay app in the App Store

#80

Post by pmiller2 »

echelon wrote: post #35
pwinnski wrote: post #5

Update: It was indefensible, and Apple has already reversed course. It's a shame it sometimes takes twitter outcry for the right thing to happen, but at least the right thing happened. This seem indefensible at first blush. The app has been available as-is for years, so if the explanation given him is correct, it's a really bad look for Apple.

Wouldn't happen in a world where the DOJ forces Apple to open up the platform to 3rd party installs. It's a computer, and the most popular computer in the US. It's also the only computer a lot of people own. It's not a dedicated gaming device - people use iPhone to call, edit media, find jobs, pay for things, calculate, date, do email. It's a computer. Arguments like "but you can't install on a Nintendo" aren't equiv…

FYI (or, maybe not -- you seem to know what's going on already), there's a subreddit literally called "Stallman Was Right: https://www.reddit.com/r/StallmanWasRight/
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