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Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

economist.com

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Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#71

Post by Swizec »

draklor40 wrote: post #36
itsoktocry wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The driver is merely a pilot doing what is instructed over the radio I think this severely understates the skill of some of the highest paid athletes on the planet.

Not taking away anything from the drivers. All of them are exceptional and possibly the best on the planet. That said, when you are racing over ~20ish races , as a team, it pretty much boils down to long term strategy and tactics. Kevin Schwantz and Wayne Rainey were 2 epic motorcyclists in the 90s. Schwantz had more individual wins, but it was Rainey that had more championships titles, because he was more consistent…

Consistency is the true mark of a good racer. I can’t remember who the quote is from but it goes like this: ”Yeah I was a great driver! On a good day I could beat anyone, Senna, Schumi, Prost I was up with the best and beating them. But that’s the thing, on a \good\* day. The real champions, they don’t have good and bad days. They’re always great. At every race, every corner.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#72

Post by olivermarks »

jcims wrote: post #46
olivermarks wrote: post #9

Depends on the motorsport. Take drag racing. top fuel driver after reaction time is mostly along for the ride, depends on quality of engineering to win/lose. Alcohol FC is immensely complicated to drive, also pro stock which is pure driving skill. MotoGP motor cycle racing is highly skilled and is IMO far, far more exciting than Formula One which used to be the fastest/most expensive formula amongst multiple division…

My favorite expression of motorsport is the Isle of Man TT. Mostly because it’s a freak show. Here’s a serene introduction for the uninitiated: https://youtu.be/zbaO8mzByvw Once you’re done with that, search YouTube for “Isle of Man TT onboard” and prepare thyself.

I use those TT headrush onboard videos as motivators, they are really intense. Milky hitting the wall https://youtu.be/-Nzq2GorVH4 The great Michael Dunlop first person https://youtu.be/YWZG1nhgwgg Like watching speeded up video rushes

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#73

Post by ip26 »

itsoktocry wrote: post #20
draklor40 wrote: post #12

Mostly because modern F1 is more less about driving and more about optimzing fuel consumption, tyre wear, pitstop strategy and KERS. The driver is merely a pilot doing what is instructed over the radio, unlike the V12 , V10 era where the driver had more autonomy.

> The driver is merely a pilot doing what is instructed over the radio I think this severely understates the skill of some of the highest paid athletes on the planet.

They have immense skill. The problem is the competition is nearly equally as skilled.

We've seen this in a lot of different sports over the decades- as the field of play elevates, the variance from athlete to athlete shrinks.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#74

Post by in3d »

wintorez wrote: post #64
draklor40 wrote: post #12

Mostly because modern F1 is more less about driving and more about optimzing fuel consumption, tyre wear, pitstop strategy and KERS. The driver is merely a pilot doing what is instructed over the radio, unlike the V12 , V10 era where the driver had more autonomy.

I really wished there was a version of F1 with less mechanical and technical regulation to see what human ingenuity could achieve.

You might end up with something like Red Bull X2010. But you'd also reach the limits of human ability to withstand G-forces without passing out, especially in high speed turns and under braking.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#75

Post by wintorez »

in3d wrote: post #74
wintorez wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wished there was a version of F1 with less mechanical and technical regulation to see what human ingenuity could achieve.

You might end up with something like Red Bull X2010. But you'd also reach the limits of human ability to withstand G-forces without passing out, especially in high speed turns and under braking.

Maybe if we remove drivers altogether, things start to get interesting.

What I want is a race were all the cars don’t look identical.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#76

Post by ip26 »

wintorez wrote: post #64
draklor40 wrote: post #12

Mostly because modern F1 is more less about driving and more about optimzing fuel consumption, tyre wear, pitstop strategy and KERS. The driver is merely a pilot doing what is instructed over the radio, unlike the V12 , V10 era where the driver had more autonomy.

I really wished there was a version of F1 with less mechanical and technical regulation to see what human ingenuity could achieve.

F1 made 1,500 horsepower thirty five years ago. If such an unrestricted series existed today, we'd probably be looking at 3,000+ horsepower, 300-400mph speeds, and either a) autopilot features (for faster-than-human reactions) or b) absolutely ridiculous levels of fatalities.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#77

Post by ip26 »

wintorez wrote: post #75
in3d wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might end up with something like Red Bull X2010. But you'd also reach the limits of human ability to withstand G-forces without passing out, especially in high speed turns and under braking.

Maybe if we remove drivers altogether, things start to get interesting. What I want is a race were all the cars don’t look identical.

Certainly some of that is down to regulation, but simple physics bears a lot of the responsibility. The competitive field will tend to converge on the most aerodynamic shape given the constraints of the day.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#78

Post by juststeve »

eaurouge wrote: post #35
systemvoltage wrote: post #14

I mean this in the most respectful way: Can someone please explain the allure of watching F1 race on TV? I honestly sat down with a few friends and we watched Kimi Raikonnen but it was not a lot of action in terms of overtaking and drama - it was mostly inching forward and making time. I fully understand and appreciate the amount of skills that go into driving an F1 car, but what is in for the spectator?

Pretty much every popular somewhat global sport has levels of nuance, detail, backstory that will take some investment in time and interest for you to become familiar with. If the sport doesn’t immediately draw you in, don’t feel you have to keep watching in hopes that it eventually does. This is my current thesis for global sports, especially those with an audience as large as F1’s. “There’s something they get out o…

International Test Cricket is another one, a single match can be 5 days, but within that are lots of battles - especially on days 1 to 3.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#79

Post by viburnum »

segmondy wrote: post #6

This entire argument is simply because Hamilton is black. He sets records and all of a sudden he can't shine by himself. Of course the team is important and very good but also so is Hamilton as is evident by his teammate who has the same car unless you truly believe Mercedes is giving his teammate a handicapped car.

Yeah, it's crazy, Hamilton is obviously amazing. He's clobbered his teammates his entire career. He was so good his in his rookie season that Alonso, himself one of the greats, quit Mclaren rather than be the number two driver!

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#80

Post by jcims »

olivermarks wrote: post #72
jcims wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite expression of motorsport is the Isle of Man TT. Mostly because it’s a freak show. Here’s a serene introduction for the uninitiated: https://youtu.be/zbaO8mzByvw Once you’re done with that, search YouTube for “Isle of Man TT onboard” and prepare thyself.

I use those TT headrush onboard videos as motivators, they are really intense. Milky hitting the wall https://youtu.be/-Nzq2GorVH4 The great Michael Dunlop first person https://youtu.be/YWZG1nhgwgg Like watching speeded up video rushes

I get tunnel vision just watching these damn videos. I don't know how they do it with so much at stake, especially when it's down to the wire and they are passing back and forth on roasted tires. It feels superhuman. Then you hear Guy Martin 'talk' and it all makes sense. :D
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