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Virginia voter registration down on last day to register before election

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Re: Virginia voter registration down on last day to register before election

#71

Post by roamerz »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #39
roamerz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re correct. It’s a Republic with a sane voting system that keeps the mobs from the population centers from ruling the country. You say weakness I say strength.

And so instead of the "mobs from the population centers" ruling the country we have the "mobs" from a few swing states running the country. How is that better? When it comes to the Senate why should dirt in one state get so much more say than people in another?

May not be a perfect system but there is not a perfect way to represent such a wide and diverse area and population. I think our founders did quite well.

Re: Virginia voter registration down on last day to register before election

#72

Post by ardy42 »

klyrs wrote: post #38
elric wrote: post #3

I don't know much about US elections, but from what I've seen in the news the last couple of weeks, I have to say I'm less than impressed. The rest of the world used to see the US as a beacon of democracy. But the country seems to be utterly incapable of organizing fair elections for its populace. Voter registration failures. Voter intimidation. Politicians literally redrawing maps in order to gain an advangate. A pr…

Senator Mike Lee wasn't just being honest, his statement that the US is not a democracy is factual. This isn't actually new, and there's a reason that the white house and senate have been packing the courts with justices from the Federalist Society. The ideological disagreement between federalists and democrats is as old as the country. The "weird" thing is that the country has been quite focused on installing democr…

> Senator Mike Lee wasn't just being honest, his statement that the US is not a democracy is factual. This isn't actually new, and there's a reason that the white house and senate have been packing the courts with justices from the Federalist Society. The ideological disagreement between federalists and democrats is as old as the country. The "weird" thing is that the country has been quite focused on installing democracies elsewhere, but that rather makes sense because we maintain influence over those countries and often "observe" their elections.

Just a nitpick, but the federalists of early American history have little to do with the Federalist Society. I'd say the modern-day Democrats are probably closer to the Federalists and the Republicans are closer to the Democratic-Republicans.

Re: Virginia voter registration down on last day to register before election

#73

Post by roamerz »

tengbretson wrote: post #62
UncleOxidant wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so instead of the "mobs from the population centers" ruling the country we have the "mobs" from a few swing states running the country. How is that better? When it comes to the Senate why should dirt in one state get so much more say than people in another?

Why must the will of these population centers be exercised at the highest level of our government in the first place? Surely they could just implement their policies at the state level, unless, that is, the goal is not to make effective policy but to instead vindictively assert their will over their ideological rivals.

I agree with that to the extent that the States stick with the Constitution ie my right to bear arms is not infringed when I travel or a particular state or a state’s decision does not cause my taxes to raise in a different state where I live ie California trying to change vehicle emission laws.

Re: Virginia voter registration down on last day to register before election

#74

Post by ardy42 »

cpr wrote: post #70
klyrs wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Senator Mike Lee wasn't just being honest, his statement that the US is not a democracy is factual. This isn't actually new, and there's a reason that the white house and senate have been packing the courts with justices from the Federalist Society. The ideological disagreement between federalists and democrats is as old as the country. The "weird" thing is that the country has been quite focused on installing democr…

What a shame to "pack the courts" (as you say) with people who believe in the Constitution as their guiding light.

> What a shame to "pack the courts" (as you say) with people who believe in the Constitution as their guiding light.

That's a rather tendentious take. I'm pretty sure everyone who gets appointed to the Supreme Court "believe[s] in the Constitution as their guiding light" but have rather different ideas about what that actually means.

Re: Virginia voter registration down on last day to register before election

#75

Post by roamerz »

jfengel wrote: post #64
tengbretson wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why must the will of these population centers be exercised at the highest level of our government in the first place? Surely they could just implement their policies at the state level, unless, that is, the goal is not to make effective policy but to instead vindictively assert their will over their ideological rivals.

Uh... because they've got most of the population? Is this a trick question? Wasn't the whole idea that majority rules? If you're not going with majority rules, then what's the basis for picking this particular minority to vindictively assert their will over their ideological rivals?

Bias? It’s called the electoral college. It’s part of that unpopular document called the United States Constitution.

Re: Virginia voter registration down on last day to register before election

#76

Post by ardy42 »

toby wrote: post #44
UncleOxidant wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is not a beacon of democracy at this point, it's a beacon of minority rule. Between the electoral college and each state (no matter how many people live in that state) having 2 senators it's an archaic system that's way overdue for an update. However, the system is built in such a way as to make updates very, very difficult so, unfortunately, don't expect any significant changes anytime soon. In the meantime,…

I have no idea why you're getting downvoted for this. The Senate system is really silly at this point. Republicans control the senate despite only having 40% of the popular vote nationally in the Senate races. Californians pay 13% of the Federal tax revenue and get the same number of Senators as states that contribute less than 1%.

> Republicans control the senate despite only having 40% of the popular vote nationally in the Senate races.

That's because the Senate is there to represent the states themselves in the federal government as individual political entities.

IMHO, if you want pure majority rule everywhere, you might as well just abolish the Senate entirely, as it would be redundant with the House.

Personally, I think some kind of geography-proportionate representation is necessary to prevent the non-urban areas from becoming neglected hinterlands. That said, I do dislike the way the Republicans have used this system to extract maximum partisan advantage, so some reform is necessary. Rather than making the Senate representation proportional by population, I think it should lose its monopoly on executive/judicial confirmations and the House should have equal say in those.

Re: Virginia voter registration down on last day to register before election

#77

Post by jfengel »

tengbretson wrote: post #65
jfengel wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh... because they've got most of the population? Is this a trick question? Wasn't the whole idea that majority rules? If you're not going with majority rules, then what's the basis for picking this particular minority to vindictively assert their will over their ideological rivals?

You seem stuck in this binary where you believe that if you are not ruling over some else they must be ruling over you.

You're the one making the claim that the majority is going to rule vindictively. If you believe that they're worse at that than other people, it's on you to demonstrate it. Or to demonstrate that the minority singled out by the Electoral College is somehow especially better at it.

Re: Virginia voter registration down on last day to register before election

#78

Post by jfengel »

roamerz wrote: post #75
jfengel wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh... because they've got most of the population? Is this a trick question? Wasn't the whole idea that majority rules? If you're not going with majority rules, then what's the basis for picking this particular minority to vindictively assert their will over their ideological rivals?

Bias? It’s called the electoral college. It’s part of that unpopular document called the United States Constitution.

Yes, I'm precisely calling the electoral college a bias, and asking the OP to demonstrate why that bias would be better than a more equitable decision making mechanism.

Re: Virginia voter registration down on last day to register before election

#79

Post by UncleOxidant »

roamerz wrote: post #75
jfengel wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh... because they've got most of the population? Is this a trick question? Wasn't the whole idea that majority rules? If you're not going with majority rules, then what's the basis for picking this particular minority to vindictively assert their will over their ideological rivals?

Bias? It’s called the electoral college. It’s part of that unpopular document called the United States Constitution.

> It’s part of that unpopular document called the United States Constitution.

Which allowed slavery, counted those slaves as 3/5ths of a person for purposes of apportionment in Congress while not allowing those slaves to vote. The electoral college was part of the compromise with the slave states. Also didn't allow women to vote.

Re: Virginia voter registration down on last day to register before election

#80

Post by UncleOxidant »

roamerz wrote: post #71
UncleOxidant wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so instead of the "mobs from the population centers" ruling the country we have the "mobs" from a few swing states running the country. How is that better? When it comes to the Senate why should dirt in one state get so much more say than people in another?

May not be a perfect system but there is not a perfect way to represent such a wide and diverse area and population. I think our founders did quite well.

Maybe they did well by the standards of their era, but a lot has changed since then.
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