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Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows

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Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows

#71
post #39

We should be careful to draw a causal relationship here. It might not be that getting the military equipment causes police to be more aggressive and therefore have more killings. It might instead be that the more aggressive police departments are the ones that more seek to purchase military equipment, and the more aggressive police are the ones with more killings. I tend to think that's the case. Regardless, there is…

Or departments with more military gear are in more risky areas where the use of force is more likely. I could not read the article because it is blocked for me.

The study controls for that variable:

> The newspaper’s analysis used the military’s database and paired it with a database of fatal police shootings from across the state, controlling for statistical variables like community income, rural-urban differences, racial makeup, and violent crime rates.

The article explicitly cautions against drawing conclusions about causality. My intuition is that there’s truth to both explanations: cosplaying as a military makes police more violent, and intrinsically violent departments are more likely to seek out military equipment.

And frankly, the second conclusion scares me more. If the causal relationship is “equipment —> violence”, we can solve it by simply banning the use of military equipment by police. If the relationship goes the other way, though, we still have to deal with violent cops who want to hurt civilians.

Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police in Georgia literally throw hand grenades into the cribs of sleeping babies and get away with it. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ex-georgia-deputy-acqui...

Flashbangs. They are violent, but in a totally different class than actual hand grenades. No police in the US use hand grenades. The kid in the crib survived. Had it been an actual grenade ... not a survivable event. https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/05/baby-in-coma-...

It's not a fragmentation grenade, but it's still a type of hand grenade. Not as deadly, but not exactly harmless either. And very irresponsible to use it in a situation that does not warrant it.

Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows

#73

We should be careful to draw a causal relationship here. It might not be that getting the military equipment causes police to be more aggressive and therefore have more killings. It might instead be that the more aggressive police departments are the ones that more seek to purchase military equipment, and the more aggressive police are the ones with more killings. I tend to think that's the case. Regardless, there is…

Yeah, I wouldn't bet on it being causal though I could make a plausible story that police departments that put dangerous looking military equipment in their recruitment videos tend to attract the wrong sort of people.

Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows

#74
post #39

We should be careful to draw a causal relationship here. It might not be that getting the military equipment causes police to be more aggressive and therefore have more killings. It might instead be that the more aggressive police departments are the ones that more seek to purchase military equipment, and the more aggressive police are the ones with more killings. I tend to think that's the case. Regardless, there is…

Or departments with more military gear are in more risky areas where the use of force is more likely. I could not read the article because it is blocked for me.

> controlling for statistical variables like community income, rural-urban differences, racial makeup, and violent crime rates.

So, they must have have data on low crime areas that also have similar military gear.

On a related note, do surplus statisticians cause lying journalists?

Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows

#75

> In Georgia alone, police departments and sheriff’s offices have received more than 2,700 military rifles, night vision goggles and laser gun sights, and literally hundreds of armored vehicles, including more than two dozen mine-resistant vehicles built to fight the war on terror abroad. How else will they protect themselves in the dangerous minefields of Atlanta? /s I’m glad someone has put together the data on thi…

The worst part about the police getting military gear is that the actual military has much stricter rules of engagement. With great power comes great responsibility.

There was a story about a ex-marine police officer who accurately judged that a suspect did not need to be shot, and then got fired for not shooting him.

Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flashbangs. They are violent, but in a totally different class than actual hand grenades. No police in the US use hand grenades. The kid in the crib survived. Had it been an actual grenade ... not a survivable event. https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/05/baby-in-coma-...

Are you really defending the police grenading a baby.

No, the comment pointed out that it wasn’t a grenade. A not-grenade cannot be used to “grenade a baby.”

Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows

#77

We should be careful to draw a causal relationship here. It might not be that getting the military equipment causes police to be more aggressive and therefore have more killings. It might instead be that the more aggressive police departments are the ones that more seek to purchase military equipment, and the more aggressive police are the ones with more killings. I tend to think that's the case. Regardless, there is…

It might also be because military equipment is statistically more likely to be acquired by departments in more dangerous environments.

Though I still feel the explanation is a positive feedback, where being more aggressive causes more aggressive behavior to normalize faster, causing more aggressive equipment, causing police to feel more like an occupation force rather than civil servants, causing more aggresive behavior, and so on.

Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows

#78

> In Georgia alone, police departments and sheriff’s offices have received more than 2,700 military rifles, night vision goggles and laser gun sights, and literally hundreds of armored vehicles, including more than two dozen mine-resistant vehicles built to fight the war on terror abroad. How else will they protect themselves in the dangerous minefields of Atlanta? /s I’m glad someone has put together the data on thi…

I was under the impression that one of the main reason police forces are getting "military gear" is because they're getting it at a steep discount due to the actual military not having anything else to do with it once they're done.

IMO this is even less charitable, since it implies that more violent police departments are seeking out surplus military equipment to better subjugate civilians.

Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows

#79
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, even in a warzone, if a member of the US military killed somebody because they thought they were reaching for a gun, they would be court-martialed and put in jail, and then kicked out of the military after their sentence. The standard for police in the USA is appallingly low, and getting lower.

Well, apart from that guy who shot so many civilians that his colleagues kept bending his sights, who eventually got prosecuted for war crimes .. then pardoned by the President.

That says more about the President than anything else.

Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police in Georgia literally throw hand grenades into the cribs of sleeping babies and get away with it. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ex-georgia-deputy-acqui...

Flashbangs. They are violent, but in a totally different class than actual hand grenades. No police in the US use hand grenades. The kid in the crib survived. Had it been an actual grenade ... not a survivable event. https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/05/baby-in-coma-...

Well, you see in this situation the baby was asleep, so the SWAT tactics manual only calls for a stun grenade. Had the baby been awake, of course a 120mm howitzer shell would have done a better job of ensuring the safety of the brave officers from this dangerous infant.
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