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Programmer salary in mainland Europe?

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Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?

#72
It's interesting to see the salary in different countries. I'm starting in a junior developer position in Norway with a salary of €56k/year ($82k/year). However, we have reasonably heavy taxes and cost of living. Another important aspect is that our currency is crazy strong right now. Just 10 months back it would have been about $65k/year.

Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?

#73

I'm a programmer from Russia, Moscow. My salary is ~$3000USD per month, I think its average picture.

$3K is way above average in Moscow, and Moscow salaries are much bigger than anywhere else in Russia. To give a comparison, a salary of $1K per month is considered above average in most of the Russian cities, except for 2-4 largest ones.

Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?

#74
post #57
post #2

Mainland Europe is a big place. (As is the United States, Japan, etc). There are huge, huge, huge disparities in income between e.g. programmers working finance in Paris and somebody cranking out back office code in Poland. I have no specific knowledge about the market in Vienna, but find it easily within the realm of plausibility. You'll still be making a 50% premium to e.g. some fairly senior developers in the Midw…

and Poland is not your target. I'ts quite sad, but and true. Working as Python developer with 4 years of experience. Close to 23.000 eur(net), and used to think it's quite good, after this message it's no longer true. Thanks guys ;)

Same situation in Italy.

Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?

#75
I'm from Vienna, I would say it's quite average. To calculate taxes and to put it into perspective you can use this online-calculator of the federal ministry of finance: http://www.bmf.gv.at/service/anwend/steuerberech/bruttonetto...

Comparing salaries in europe is quite difficult, in Austria, for 45,000 €, your employer have to pay about 14,000 € taxes additionally which you don't see on your pay slip, so the employer is spending in your case about 60,000 €. And you have 25 holidays a year and lots of public holidays http://english.bmf.gv.at/Ministry/PublicHolidaysinAustria.ht... ;-)

Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?

#76
€45K = $65K = £39K

In my eyes that IS a really good salary. I earn £36K (€39K) with 6 years of experience in London.

It's certainly enough to have a quality of life in the region better than most. Personally I think you're lucky to get the opportunity to travel and experience another lifestyle.

Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?

#77
post #55
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assume that you are either talking net income or you mistyped the number?

Yes - I'm talking about net income. I've a small mistake: ~ 10.000 Euro (not $) / year this is ~ 14.000$ / year.

Sorry to be inquisitive even further, I am not in Poland but my friend is thinking about moving there. Are you talking Warsaw here or a smaller town (Krakow, Wroclaw, Tricity area)?

Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?

#78
post #19

You could not compare US/EU pays. The tax system and the benefits vary widely. For example in France: a salary of 50k€/year like me, you should add 30% of tax paid by the compagny you would have paid from your own salary in US. This salary is brut. You could retire 20% of direct tax on it. So it give a ~3000€ net by month. Benefits paid by tax: - health insurance (70% rembursment for standard care like a flu, 100% fo…

Are defined benefit pensions common anywhere outside of the public sector anymore in Europe? They weren't on offer for (smaller) private companies when I was in the UK 10 years ago.

Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?

#79
In Geneva, Switzerland, earning more than CHF 100,000 / year (ca. USD 110,000) as a programmer is not an exception, by far. Wages are rather high here, compared to the rest of mainland Europe. The cost of living is high, but overall Geneva is a good place to live. It is full of wealthy institutions, which makes it a advantageous place to work as well.

This has a two drawbacks however. First, it's not such a good thing for us programmers to have too many cash cows in one place. Indeed, too many employers of software engineers here are service companies that tend to neglect the good "explorer" mind set, resting on a more lucrative "milker" working style, and sometimes even relying on "cowboy" techniques to catch new clients. This is very disenchanting for engineers that cross their paths.

Another issue here is that you have within the same narrow space institutions with huge cultural distances. It is well known that Geneva has a bunch of international organizations, as well as banks and financial institutions. It is less known that some of the biggest tobacco industries have chosen this area to monitor their business, and that some health organizations have to deal with this neighborhood. If you are a sensible worker with values, all this will put you in trouble sooner or later, and maybe in very unexpected ways. Pragmatic programmers, beware of the cynics in pragmatism clothing!

This leads to my suggestion: think twice before you leave your friends and beloved ones in the hope of a better salary. There are plenty of reasons to move to other places or to explore the world, but this should not be the first one. Instead, concentrate on the good you can do with your skills, and the fun they can bring you.

Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?

#80
Your best bet is to go for the fiscal havens in Europe: Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Swiss. They have really LOWER taxes and banks pay VERY well.

As a graduate and competent C# developer you can easily get 65kEUR+ per year + car + meal vouchers working for a service company in Luxembourg. That's a bit more than 3500EUR/month in your pocket with pension + health insurance + unemployment etc paid for. Banks pay MUCH more than that. And European institutions pay about 5kEUR/month net with even better pension/health plan/etc.

It's 40 hours/week in Luxembourg and 25 days of paid holiday. I have yet to experience unpaid overtime.

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