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Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#71

Post by kqr »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #69
burtonator wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on Adderall for 5 years ... I'm 43 right now. It really HAS changed my life. What I've found is that over the long term you're able to perform much much better. By the time I was in my 30s I had developed coping skills which worked for the most part but I would find myself getting demotivated and defocused sometimes on long term priorities and sometimes unable to recommit to them. Adderall totally changed t…

You know what's totally nuts? Taking Amphetamine daily for years in reasonable doses essentially has no long term negative effects. In that way, similar to coffee. When I think about that, it's kind of mind blowing. For that matter, it is also crazy that we don't start giving children coffee at younger ages to help focus — since there are no known negative effects. It's just a cultural trope that it stunts growth, et…

> You know what's totally nuts? Taking Amphetamine daily for years in reasonable doses essentially has no long term negative effects. In that way, similar to coffee.

This is a null hypothesis that hasn't been refuted due to lack of evidence, and not an alternative hypothesis that has been proven by evidence, right?

I ask because I've been looking into this before, and from what I remember there was virtually no evidence on long term use in reasonable amounts.

(There is evidence on short term use in reasonable amounts, and long term use in unreasonable amounts, though.)

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#72

Post by brotchie »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #28
_dibly wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take 30-MG Adderall XRs, my brothers both take IR before classes since they have more downtime, but I work from home so most days I wake up and work until 4-5PM at my desk. Also worth mentioning that we all take the doctor recommended dosages, I worked my way up from 10MG doses and I absolutely do not recommend self-medicating in any way.

you wouldn't know anything about adhd meds and depression/anxiety? I've had panic attacks this year, I had depression years ago, went to therapy a lot better on that front. Enter: Xoloft followed by Trintellix (1 week in). I dealt w/ them pretty well, I'd go lay down, breathe and maybe take a cat nap, wake up in 30 minutes go back to work feeling like a million dollars. Now, not so much. So, I started xoloft a month…

Haven't taken any of the anxiety mediation, but do have some experience of anxiety + ADHD.

I was taking Dextroamphetamine for ~4 years, great for ADHD symptoms, focus and energy is amazing, but terrible for libido and really raised my anxiety. I tried switching from Dex to Methylphenidate, but after one day I quit because of how it made me feel (paranoia++).

Fluctuated on-and-off the Dex for a while (i.e. taking it a few days a week), but the whip-saws in dopamine levels really hit me hard, anxiety++.

Recently switched over to Atomoxetine (brand name Strattera) which has an off-script application to treating ADHD. It has a much more subtle effect than Dex, and has to be taken daily it to be effective. After about ~30 days of Atomoxetine I feel MUCH better, anxiety and stress is only at background levels.

Atomoxetine is nowhere near Dex in terms of focus and energy, but it does certainly address many ADHD symptoms + doesn't create the residual anxiety (at least for me). Libido isn't 100% of unmedicated, but nowhere near as bad as amphetamines.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#73

Post by haneefmubarak »

_dibly wrote: post #7

This was an interesting read but, as an adult with ADHD, all I get out of this is that medication is even more of a benefit to those with real difficulties coping with their ADHD. I've always been one to 'just deal with it' but after a few years of working through school and seeing my younger brothers go through the same thing with medication, I realized that I was essentially just handicapping myself. Now I take med…

What's a more modern medicine in this context?

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#74

Post by Forgeties79 »

_dibly wrote: post #7

This was an interesting read but, as an adult with ADHD, all I get out of this is that medication is even more of a benefit to those with real difficulties coping with their ADHD. I've always been one to 'just deal with it' but after a few years of working through school and seeing my younger brothers go through the same thing with medication, I realized that I was essentially just handicapping myself. Now I take med…

Man are you me?

After college I finally got diagnosed again after being off medication for 8 or so years. Grew up first doing Ritalin->adderall->concerta->no meds. I realized how needlessly difficult I made college for myself.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#75

Post by akiselev »

JackMcMack wrote: post #23
anonymoushn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just ritalin. If you think it would be more effective to take a straight dose of 10mg than to use the time release mechanism, I think you could achieve this by getting the drug out of the pills you already have. I am also using concerta because it is the only form of ritalin legal in my country. I don't really notice a difference compared to taking ritalin the other way.

Extended work from home finally pushed me to get diagnosed (ASS + ADHD). I'm now on 2x 10mg methylphenidate (ritalin). It has definitely helped, but after a few weeks I now feel habituated (is that the right word?). Unless something is on fire or past deadline I'm back to getting no work done. I do notice positive effects when combined with (too much) caffeine, but ideally I want to quit soft drinks (and I don't like…

> - Adderall = Amphetamine

Adderall is a mixture of several amphetamine salts including (25%?) dextroamphetamine and the formulas are subtly (and sometimes not so subtly) different between manufacturers. The key difference between Adderall and Dexedrine is the addition of those complementary amphetamines that balance out dextro's rough edges (Tracers!)

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#76

Post by cik2e »

treeman79 wrote: post #20
_dibly wrote: post #7

This was an interesting read but, as an adult with ADHD, all I get out of this is that medication is even more of a benefit to those with real difficulties coping with their ADHD. I've always been one to 'just deal with it' but after a few years of working through school and seeing my younger brothers go through the same thing with medication, I realized that I was essentially just handicapping myself. Now I take med…

Took adderal for year. Completely life changing. My focus and energy level were on par with a normal persons. Unfortunately it was far too hard on the body. Started stroking out on it. Plus it interacted with almost every Medicane I’ve been prescribed. Tried vyvanse. Only one side effect. The deepest most profound sadness imaginable. Would sit for hours just “sad”. Nothing was bothering me. Worked fine aside from tha…

There are supplements, backed by research, that practically remove all of the negative side effects of adderall. To start with, the sadness you felt on vyvanse sounds like dopamine depletion. You want to be taking l-tyrosine to make sure there’s plenty of fuel for the amphetamine to work with. ALCAR + ALA counteract the psychomotor agitation and tolerance formation. Magnesium + zinc help with muscle cramping. Selenium is neuroprotective. And of course you want to make sure you’re getting enough electrolytes (sodium + potassium) and balancing your intake, as a general rule for life, but especially if you take stimulants.

With the aforementioned supplement stack I’ve been able to go off doses as high as 60 mg of adderall per day without any significant withdrawal symptoms. It’s been a complete game changer in terms of making this medication a sustainable option for me. I will say as a caveat that things which reduce drug tolerance formation also typically attenuate some of the effects. In my case, ALCAR + ALA basically erase the potential for euphoria but don’t seem to diminish the mental benefits.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#77

Post by burntoutfire »

_dibly wrote: post #11
zarkov99 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What medication do you take now? Did you take anything while growing up?

Growing up I was perscribed ritalin, however I stopped taking it within a few months because my middle-school brain was not enjoying the side-effects (mostly drowsiness). Now I'm perscribed Adderall and it works great. It can be annoying because every college student under the sun is taking adderall to cram last minute but it's a different drug when you actually need it to function. For most people Adderall just keep…

> I can focus on my work all day with no medication if I'm doing something that I find personally interesting. However, when I have a week's worth of online coursework and boring bookkeeping to do it's impossible to get more than 5 minutes done without staring out the window, putting something on in the background, and twiddling my thumbs. I can still buckle down and get work done without it, but it's so much more mentally draining to do a week of work without any medication than if I were just to take what the doctor recommends.

How do you know that other people have it harder? My suspicion is that we all suffer in quiet desperation.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#78

Post by __blockcipher__ »

petercooper wrote: post #59
cpuguy83 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having gone through this with my fam, given that you seem to have reactions to every med, have you considered it may be autism or aspurgers? ADHD and autism are often seen together, and reactions to other meds also seems to be fairly common. I just wanted to throw that out there because this realization that it's not just ADHD, not just anxiety, etc has changed our life dramatically... and there are meds that can hel…

This is possible. When I was diagnosed, it was autism masking ADHD (apparently the other way around is more common though) because I have all the ADHD issues with everything except my special interest. I was told that ADHD more commonly masks autism though, so it's certainly worth exploring the possibility.

The “able to function normally for special interest” is a symptom of ADHD itself, there is no need to bring in autism as an additional explanatory variable. (Not saying your autism didn’t mask symptoms but what you described happens in ADHD without autism very frequently)

For example I have ADHD without autism and grew up thinking I was “smart but lazy” because I was > 99% as far as raw intelligence but had little motivation for the drudgery associated with school (or indeed life itself), yet I could play video games for hours straight without seeming to be at a disadvantage compared to neurotypical peers.

This is because ADHD, among other things, is a disorder of attention regulation as opposed to being completely unable to pay attention to anything.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#79

Post by narwally »

iamdbtoo wrote: post #64
logicOnly wrote: post #16

Wondering if this is why marijuana makes me insanely productive. Both impact dopamine. It just sucks that I get addicted to weed because I'm super productive. I just need a way to prevent myself from having marijuana before anything social or public.

As someone who has ADHD and is also a heavy marijuana user, I've found the marijuana mostly helps me with the frustration of the ADHD experience. It makes it difficult for the frustration to reach a boiling point and that's what actually makes me productive. Adderall has been WAY more effective at this, though.

Similar experience for me. Marijuana definitely makes me feel stupider, but it slows my brain down enough that I can actually focus on one thing at a time so I actually end up more productive overall. Kind of a worse is better situation. I've found the best combination for me to be XR Adderall with a very low dose of THC. Unfortunately my addictive personality makes not abusing marijuana difficult, so I just don't use it these days.
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