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Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

mattstoller.substack.com

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Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#71

Post by mcguire »

blackbear_ wrote: post #45
starkred wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no wide ranging cultural acceptance of sexually predatory behavior There is as long as the solution is "keep women away from sexual predators" instead of "keep sexual predators away from women". Keeping girls away from competitive sports is yet another example of "boys will be boys".

Nice word play, but what is a practical, pragmatic solution to achieve that?

Actually investigate and prosecute reports rather than saying, "well, yeah, you shouldn't have been there."

Make it economically infeasible for companies like Varsity and their related organizations to ignore. And yes, you will get a lot of push back, using libertarian, freedom-related arguments.

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#72

Post by falcolas »

jtbayly wrote: post #59
falcolas wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By putting a price on her sexuality, you'll be harming her as much as any other rando who offers to pay her for the same. EDIT: this has been on my mind, and perhaps it deserves more commentary. By putting a price on her sexuality, it establishes the precedent that her body and her intimacy are commodities to be sold. That if someone comes along with the right price (a bag of candy, $1000, a promise of protection), i…

You'd rather devalue? Then it doesn't matter if somebody else takes it by force. It's nothing of value.

It's not a commodity that can be bought or sold. It's hers, no matter how much (or how little) someone pays.

> Then it doesn't matter if somebody else takes it by force. It's nothing of value.

This is a rather chilling position to try and argue for.

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#73

Post by Chris2048 »

falcolas wrote: post #64
Chris2048 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> actions speak louder than words that doesn't really follow when those actions are explicitly hidden, or denied. If it was generally accepted, why would they need to hide? The case being made here is one of indifference , and not just of sexual abuse, but any negative effects that don't directly benefit Varsity.

The action I'm referring to here is the indifference. The hiding, the denial. Using the phrase "boys will be boys". That's the action that's speaking out here. And it's a problem that's broader than Varsity.

But the indifference is on Varsities part, specifically; and it seems it was in a position to threaten anyone who knew about what it was hiding.

Who used the phrase "boys will be boys" in this situation?

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#74

Post by mcguire »

takbw4234 wrote: post #38
starkred wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously suggesting that we keep our daughters out of fashion, academics, sports, and movies as that is the only way to keep them from being raped? > Do not ever put your daughter in a situation where she can be pressured by older men to do what they want in order to advance Are you also suggesting that we don't let her work at a FAANG company? Many of us are 'pressured' by older men to advance, if you exten…

> Are you seriously suggesting that we keep our daughters out of fashion, academics, sports, and movies as that is the only way to keep them from being raped? I'm suggesting you should outright tell them that it's very likely that at some point some guy will try to demand sex from her and strongly suggest that she should GTFO and call you and/or the police asap in that case. She will not only be protecting herself bu…

I agree. Sharia law traditions have a number of advantages.

However, I think the costs outweigh whatever benefits exist.

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#75

Post by bena »

starkred wrote: post #27
takbw4234 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution (...) [i]s to fix the cultural acceptance of sexually predatory behavior toward women No, sorry, you're taking the wrong angle here. There's no wide ranging cultural acceptance of sexually predatory behavior, that's why they're called sexual predators and not sex-positive mentors. And they're attracted like flies to shit to positions of power in these kind of institutions. Please do shelter the victims…

> There's no wide ranging cultural acceptance of sexually predatory behavior There is as long as the solution is "keep women away from sexual predators" instead of "keep sexual predators away from women". Keeping girls away from competitive sports is yet another example of "boys will be boys".

The issue is you cannot tell me what a sexual predator looks like. Or, more disturbingly, you can. Because they look like you, they look like me, they look like everyone.

So a policy of "keep sexual predators away from children" just cannot work. That's a game you have to win every time. They just have to win once. One mistake and you've just allowed a predator access to children. And it's not like they'll stop.

And note, I say children, not women, because we aren't talking about the abuse of adults, we're talking about people sexually preying on children.

So I'm sorry. "Just stop criminals from committing crime" is a intellectually bankrupt argument.

The issue is that the problem is vast and multifaceted. We have to balance safety with allowing these children access to these things. And on some level, these children will have to become proactive members of their own safety. Whether we want them to be or not, they will have to be responsible to some degree.

And, no, it shouldn't be necessary. But we ultimately have to deal with the world as it is, not as it ought to be.

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#76

Post by falcolas »

opwieurposiu wrote: post #66
falcolas wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By putting a price on her sexuality, you'll be harming her as much as any other rando who offers to pay her for the same. EDIT: this has been on my mind, and perhaps it deserves more commentary. By putting a price on her sexuality, it establishes the precedent that her body and her intimacy are commodities to be sold. That if someone comes along with the right price (a bag of candy, $1000, a promise of protection), i…

How do you explain to a child that something is valuable but should not have a price? I am worried "love is free" is dangerously adjacent to "sex is cheap", the opposite of what I want to convey. Maybe the "price" in this analogy is time or commitment? Avoid the whole market comparison? Open to suggestions here.

That her sexuality is hers, and hers alone. It's hers to do with as she wishes.

That nobody - whether they be friends, family, or strangers - is entitled to her sexuality.

That it's priceless - it's not something that can be sold (or held for randsom), no matter the price.

Even in marriage, it's still hers. She can always say no, no matter how pretty the house, how rich the husband.

And just as importantly - though perhaps after puberty has started - that because it's her sexuality, she's also allowed to say yes. Because if she can't say yes, it's not hers.

Also, support her. No matter her choices, or what is forced upon her, support her through everything. Even if it was her choice, and she now regrets it, and it pisses you off to no end, support her.

That's my opinion, and what I do.

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#77

Post by mcguire »

jeffbee wrote: post #62
mcguire wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a federal government enterprise contractor and former large corporate contractor, that is a pretty common story. So is this: " The problem is that Clever, which is now in like 60% of the nation's schools, then is able to extort a very high fee from any educational software vendor that wishes to continue serving the district. Just to give you an example, we recently signed a contract with XYZ Public School…

I just don't understand how they sell it to school districts. If you already adopted ChromeOS you have a robust, free SSO solution that's freely available and already integrated into virtually all relevant applications. What problem does Clever claim to be solving for you?

The article says, "also passes to apps necessary information about who is in what class (rostering)." Presumably, that includes authorization based on rosters.

It's also free to districts.

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#78

Post by whatshisface »

mcguire wrote: post #63
whatshisface wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like if there was an island in the Caribbean filled with pirates, it would be simultaneously a good idea to tell the merchant ships to stay away and to send the Royal Navy.

If the merchants stay away, the navy won't care about the pirates.

Forgetting for a moment about the analogy, if you identified that an island had a really bad piracy problem, your solution would be to... send all of the merchant ships past it? That's extremely Machiavellian, to say the least.

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#79

Post by lefrenchy »

jtbayly wrote: post #54
lefrenchy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please do shelter the victims if you can, and warn them all they're setting themselves up for this kind of abuse. Are you serious? You want to make victims feel responsible for being assaulted and taken advantage of? They must already feel an incredible sense of shame and guilt, the answer is absolutely not to tell them they are “setting themselves up” by pursuing their interests or passions..

No. We want to prevent them from becoming victims in the first place. Hence the word "warn" as opposed to the phrase "you had it coming."

> warn them all they're setting themselves up for this kind of abuse

"Setting themselves up for this kind of abuse" has a very similar ring to "you had it coming".

People can be abused in so many different environments (sports, school, church, politics). We can't prevent them from participating in any of these things, and tell them they're "setting themselves up" if they do. That's absurd and will never serve to actually fix the root cause of the problem.

There are a host of cultural issues (over-sexualization, hyper masculinity, etc...) that contribute to the pervasiveness of abuse, and without addressing those we will never solve anything. We can also educate our children (or people more generally) on what is an is not acceptable behavior from people in those positions of power doing the abuse.

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#80

Post by [deleted] »

dehrmann wrote: post #51
GeoAtreides wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding sports: If it's not sexual predators, it's just plain old emotional and physical abuse. Sending your daughter to gymnastics means condemning her to abuse of all kinds. For example: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-53509107 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/03/sports/olympics/gymnastic... https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/300071427/an-insidious-culture... https://theconversation.com/winning-at-all-costs-…

Not to justify it, and I don't have an answer, but won't most sufficiently competitive activities devolve to this in an arms race?

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