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On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

w3c.studio24.net

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Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#71

Post by zelphirkalt »

prox wrote: post #49
inglor_cz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a self-hosted blog with Wordpress and the change from classic editor to Gutenberg was like re-educating yourself to writing with your weak hand. Yuck. In the meantime, I got used to it, because I did not want to fight the development direction that was seemingly set in stone. And, to be just, Gutenberg got better. Nowadays you can pull most things off in it without thinking twice. But once you start horsing ar…

Before Wordpress my go to CMS was Drupal, but it suffered from the same problems. It took 3 years to even port the most standard and most used plugins to the new version. I think its a bad sign if there is such a massive opposition to the direction and it is disregarded completely. And like you said, once you start using atypical situations, it becomes a unnecessary complicated affair. Luckily you can dismiss Gutenbe…

If WP ever (probably not) gets away from the "everything is a post" approach, none of the gazillion plugins will ever work again. WP only gives you things, if you use its classes, so the tendency of its users is to make everything a post, but a post is (surprisingly ha!) not the correct abstraction for everything. It is in fact a very bad design.

Many of the often touted so high number of users of WP are however, rather casual want to host a blog kind of users, who really don't need much more than posts and plugins, which take care of implementing stuff on an unfitting abstraction, ehich remains invisible to the casual user.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#72

Post by z3t4 »

cjfd wrote: post #15

The 'eat your own dog food' principle would dictate that the W3C writes their site in plain html + css. The fact that this is not even considered proves the these languages are so incredibly non ergonomic. I know.... it is an often reiterated point, but when it is the site of the W3C it really is very hard not to notice this....

There are two camps withing the HTML/CSS community, one that thinks HTML and CSS should be hand written (with the help of a static site generator), the other one thinks that HTML and CSS should always be generated by a design tool like Frontpage, CMS, Wordpress/Gutenberg et.al.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#73

Post by Ayesh »

_7gt4 wrote: post #64

WordPress has some serious edge cases, and lots of stale issues in Core, many with patches that just go stale themselves. If it isn't prioritized by Automattic, it's not getting in. https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/32101

This is my experience as well. Any tickets related to a11y, PHP code clean up/modernization, or security don't get the love JS-heavy tickets get.

Thumbs up to people as Sergey who triage issues and brought up some of the tickets. Drupal is sort of following the same way; if it's not related to the latest Drupal version or related to media uploads, editing experience, etc, those issues are lucky to picked up.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#74

Post by Drdrdrq »

411111111111111 wrote: post #61
cheeze wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironic that the link looks kinda... terrible. I can read it, but it's not pleasant at all.

Design is entirely broken in Firefox on android... Half the header is cut off etc

Fwiw, it works perfectly for me, no issues whatsoever. Which is rare. Ff on Android too, but 68.8 (I dare not upgrade, lest I lose uMatrix).

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#75

Post by brailsafe »

gassius wrote: post #53

I am almost sure this is not the case, but the article leave me with the impression that the author is not up to latest trends and paradigms. React, or any other modern front end framework, is not equivalent to SPA.

Not necessarily equivalent, but usually used for that. Most frontend libraries are good tools for that task, and ok tools for other tasks.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#76

Post by frereubu »

I'm technical director of an agency that builds websites solely in WordPress, and I can say with feeling that Gutenberg has (so far) been a disaster not just in terms of accessibility but in terms of clarity of the development process. It's been a moving target since day one, with us constantly scrambling to keep up with large changes in each release. We held off for a while, and have only built three sites with it, but I wish we'd held off longer.

For example, there have been major interfaces changes on a regular basis, each of which we have to spend time walking our clients through. One change - defaulting to full-screen editing, which hides the menus and loses a lot of context that editors were used to - was pushed through at the last minute of a release cycle with a personal intervention from Matt Mullenweg. That meant that suddenly editors were confronted with an unfamiliar editing interface even if they were already registered and hadn't changed anything themselves, rather than a dismissible tooltip letting existing editors know that they could use a new full-screen editing interface. That seemingly arbitrary and personal style of project management really doesn't foster confidence that things are being thought through carefully.

I know from personal experience that you need to keep up momentum in a development project otherwise things stagnate, but so far the development of Gutenberg has been very much "move fast and break things" which would feel appropriate for a beta, but not for the default editing experience.

I think Gutenberg may well turn out to be really good - our clients do prefer it over the classic editor once we have it under control - but the way this has been managed has lost a lot of good will on our part as an agency and I've been actively looking at other CMSes like Craft as a result.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#78

Post by tiborsaas »

It's no wonder, Craft is a great pick. I've built numerous sites with it and it works like a charm. What they nailed down is that it has great UX for content creators and developers as well. The speed at which you can build sites is amazing.

You can even build your startup MVP with it if you consider it as a headless, REST API prototype tool. Data modelling is where it excels.

I guess I have to stop praising, it starts to feel like a paid ad :)

BTW I don't get the naysaying for being proprietary, the source is open.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#79

Post by seanwilson »

Is there an open source CMS that people would recommended for use with a static website generator for large websites? Netlify CMS is interesting for example and I love how content changes are versioned in Git.

I like static website generation but don't want to get locked into a proprietary CMS platform.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#80

Post by mattmanser »

411111111111111 wrote: post #61
cheeze wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironic that the link looks kinda... terrible. I can read it, but it's not pleasant at all.

Design is entirely broken in Firefox on android... Half the header is cut off etc

That's how it's supposed to look. I think.

It is truly terrible, isn't it!

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