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AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

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Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#71

Post by Valkhyr »

wvenable wrote: post #35

I'm a parent -- it's never been easier to control what your children are doing on devices. My son isn't an admin on his laptop. I don't let him download arbitrary apps and he doesn't even own his own i-device yet. He's only slightly older than Miguel's kids, and he has a Switch (with parental controls on), but I don't see any need to give him his own iPad. When he wasn't old enough to learn about dark patterns, we di…

> What's not an opportunity is locking down the entire world so children can't screw up.

Massively agree. It's also not good to teach children that computers are locked-down things you can't control.

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#72

Post by ratww »

floatingatoll wrote: post #48
makecheck wrote: post #43

These are all excellent (and were needed just as much literally 10 years ago but better late than never). I would greatly expand the last point on filters: I want lots of knobs so that I can permanently banish from view all the schemes that I hate. It would instantly make the Store much more valuable to me. Incidentally it would also increase value for store-runners, since I would actually start buying things again i…

What filters (knobs) would you always disable? Would you prefer that Apple reject all apps that match your list from the app store altogether, instead of offering those specific ones as search filters?

Not OP, but IMO:

Apps that are pay-to-play but are not 100% upfront about it should either be properly labelled as a demo or rejected. (Of course, before that we need a proper demo mode for freemium apps). I would disable for kids but not for me.

Ads are ok, but apps with ads should be properly labeled and there should be a way to avoid seeing those apps in the store. And ads include the "install chains", of course. I would 100% disable those for me and for the kids.

Notification spam should be dealt with the same way we deal with email spam: transactional is ok, for unsolicited marketing messages there should be a way to permanently unsubscribing. And mislabeling marketing as transactional should be grounds for rejection. I wouldn't ever accept marketing myself or allow kids to receive.

Privacy violations should be grounds for rejection, period.

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#73

Post by paulryanrogers »

KiranRao0 wrote: post #49
wvenable wrote: post #35

I'm a parent -- it's never been easier to control what your children are doing on devices. My son isn't an admin on his laptop. I don't let him download arbitrary apps and he doesn't even own his own i-device yet. He's only slightly older than Miguel's kids, and he has a Switch (with parental controls on), but I don't see any need to give him his own iPad. When he wasn't old enough to learn about dark patterns, we di…

> Each failure, including one of his accounts getting "hacked", is an opportunity for learning. I do not have a child but I completely agree. Some of my best learning experiences have been from being manipulate when I was younger. The loss was nothing of consequence in the grand scheme of my life, but the lessons had tremendous value.

Learning the hard way can be stickier. But it can also be devastating. STDs are a very permanent reminder to learn from the mistakes of others. (Not advocating sheltering kids unnecessarily.)

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#74

Post by wvenable »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #73
KiranRao0 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Each failure, including one of his accounts getting "hacked", is an opportunity for learning. I do not have a child but I completely agree. Some of my best learning experiences have been from being manipulate when I was younger. The loss was nothing of consequence in the grand scheme of my life, but the lessons had tremendous value.

Learning the hard way can be stickier. But it can also be devastating. STDs are a very permanent reminder to learn from the mistakes of others. (Not advocating sheltering kids unnecessarily.)

If they must learn the hard way, better it be on smaller problems than big ones. Better to lose your Roblox account to a scammer as kid than your bank account when you're an adult.

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#75

Post by cableshaft »

encom wrote: post #64
easton wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple Arcade is exactly what you want[0]. No in-app purchases, Apple picks the games and gives them exclusivity so there's always good quality ones. It's a good deal if you like playing games on the iPad. 0: https://www.apple.com/apple-arcade/

A cynic would say that Apple manufactured the problem, and is now selling the solution.

Yep, companies love to do that.

See Ubisoft and selling EXP boosts so you don't have to grind as much in Assassin's Creed. They decided to make it a grind to encourage you to buy the "solution".

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#76

Post by AnthonyMouse »

ksk wrote: post #30
threeseed wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic for example is only going to allow Fortnite to be on their store. So how you are going to convince kids to use only specific app stores? And then if Apple is forced to regulate what is and isn't "kid-friendly" then isn't that just opening them up to the same criticism they have right now.

There are several ways to approach the curation/kid-friendly problem. You can have simple curation apps (which are banned in the current appstore AFAIK) that are not full stores but simply point to an app store (apple or non-apple). You can have websites that link to apps that have been vetted. On the iOS side, there could be a specific kid-mode that prevents certain APIs to be used. I'm thinking no video, audio, loc…

Another solution is for kids to have an account which is restricted in which app stores it can install from, or simply can't install any new apps. Then the kid can't install Fortnite. But the kid can go to the parent and have the parent install Fortnite, if that's what the parent wants.

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#77

Post by 0xCMP »

hinkley wrote: post #50
thatsethnz wrote: post #25

> "No free games or games with In-App Purchases" This is a great rule. As a father of similarly aged kids (10, 9, 4) this is exactly what I would like to have happen at my house. Unfortunately, I have found games like this difficult to surface on the app store. Is there a decent source for games like this? Also, Apple needs to think of the impact that the prevalence of these kinds of apps has on their revenue - I spe…

Not an Apple App Store vendor, so my information is sketchy at best, but it sounds to me like in-app purchases are only a little more complicated than listing something on the app store in the first place. If the money is the same, and the dopamine hit for the latter is greater, of course everyone is going to 'race to the bottom' with in-app purchases. Apple has not provided any incentive for people to retain custome…

I think I've heard some developers of popular apps which have done this who say it's a pain to support the users who do not understand this is for upgrading and then get confused which app to use.

The fact that they can't handle refunds also does not help.

They really should just support paid upgrades. Just provide a framework/system for it and make it a normal thing.

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#78

Post by systemvoltage »

When a company sides with the consumer, the developers complain (HN crowd). When developers are given free access (side loading, jailbreaking), the consumers suffer (most times without knowing).

I only see one sided opinions from Developers here on HN. What happened to your sense of understand that capitalism ensures that companies will do every bit to milk privacy and money from the customers by hook or by crook. Do you not realize this or refuse to accept? Just look at what LinkedIn app on iPhone was doing until Apple decided to alert the user when it uses the clipboard.

Apple isn't doing this out of charity. Theyre doubling down on software + hardware security because that's their market differentiation from the rest of the Ad-tech horror show.

Vast number of actions Apple takes are siding the with the consumer. I also want my own device to be hackable, but iPhone is no small toy. It has my entire life on it. As a consumer, I pay the Apple tax so I am not constantly worrying about security and privacy. As a hacker, I want to be able to run Doom on my iPhone. Why is one side so difficult to understand? I am all for pushing Apple to make their devices repairable, more eco friendly, cheaper, better, highly secure, hackable upon concent, but gosh - it's like an article after article here bashing Apple without any balanced form of discussion. Selling a device that contains your entire life to millions of people is very different from selling a linux box to a bunch of hackers. You should realize both sides of the coin and debate.

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#79

Post by taeric »

wvenable wrote: post #35

I'm a parent -- it's never been easier to control what your children are doing on devices. My son isn't an admin on his laptop. I don't let him download arbitrary apps and he doesn't even own his own i-device yet. He's only slightly older than Miguel's kids, and he has a Switch (with parental controls on), but I don't see any need to give him his own iPad. When he wasn't old enough to learn about dark patterns, we di…

While I get what you are saying, claiming it has never been easier is somewhat silly. It was never required in the past. So, as easy as it may be now, it is still harder than many times before.

Worse, as well intentioned and correct as your advice is, you are still many zero days from a hosed machine. Sure, you don't let them download arbitrary apps. Doesn't matter if they visit some sites.

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#80

Post by andreygrehov »

mbreese wrote: post #61
andreygrehov wrote: post #57

Sort of agree with the author, but oh well, the world is not perfect and by trying to make it perfect, you're stealing away from people who do not want to live in a perfect world. There is a room for everyone. To instill good taste in my kids, I buy quality, well-designed and well-developed games. It's just that simple ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

> It’s just that simple That’s an awfully simple view of the world. And it’s just not feasible. Even games that are well done have these anti patterns. For example, my kids have been playing “Among us” a lot with their friends. On iOS at least, this is a free game that shows ads to continue. Not playing the game was not really a good option for them from a social perspective. Thankfully, there is an in app purchase t…

Oh, it's totally feasible–simplicity of the world is quite a subjective thing.

> But this is to illustrate that even “good” apps still sometimes have these dark patterns.

I just showed "Among us" to my 6-year old and he said he doesn't like it, whereas Journey [0], LEGO Batman [1] or The Gardens Between [2] (the games he is playing these days) is something he prefers more. I totally understand the "social perspective" moment you mentioned, it's a super important part of a child's life, but I still kinda stand on my previous idea, because instilling good taste is something that not only affects your own kids, but also the social circle they interact with. I get that even "good taste" is a subjective thing, but hey, all Wikipedia roads lead to Philosophy :)

[0] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/journey/id1445593893

[1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/lego-batman-dc-super-heroes/id...

[2] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/the-gardens-between/id13719655...

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