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Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

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Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#71

"The Coalition for App Fairness", I cannot not laugh. On the stage you have: Epic - Trying to be the next Valve/Steam. Happy to rip off their customers via in-game transactions. Spotify - Who rip off artists by either failing or paying very little in royalties. Tinder - Sells sex. None of these companies have any care for the actual developer; who are the folk trying to make a living from their creations.

> Happy to rip off their customers via in-game transactions.

If people are happy and willingly buying skins, dances, and battle passes, that's not a rip-off.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#72
post #53
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Website's broken on my Firefox, won't scroll.

Probably the cookie popup blocked by UBO preventing scrolling. Irony: you can't read the cookie policy without accepting it first.

The "Cookie Policy" text on that element links to it.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#73

If I build an operating system + hardware, should I be legally mandated to provide tooling to make it easy for users to find and install arbitrary software?

There are all sorts of regulations in other fields, some of them serve public interest (as all of them should). Forcing a very powerful company into making their platform more open might be OK.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#74
post #58
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone controls 100% of what happens on their own platform. Epic is a monopolist.

Epic has a share of the PC games software market.

Yes - and they control their own platform. Therefore they are a monopolist.

/s

I clearly don’t actually believe this, but the point is that if Apple is a Monopolist, then so is Epic.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#75
I'm surprised at all of the negativity here. The changes proposed would be great for developers, even if (most) of the companies involved are shady, their reasons are selfish, and the obvious "astroturfiness" of the website is laughably dissonant and reeks like a dirty think tank that hasn't been cleaned in months. Apple has no qualms about absolutely screwing developers historically. I'm happy to see some pushback.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#76

Device freedom is a must. Any device should be completely controllable by the end user. There's two parts to this to me: app stores and the data collected by the devices. Users should have the freedom to install any software on their devices, period. Users should also have the freedom to stop all data collection by these devices. This applies to all electronics--video game consoles, TVs, printers, who knows what else…

If users didn’t want these things, users wouldn’t buy them.

For the vast majority of people, and iPhone is way, way better than a computer that can run any app, precisely because it can’t run any app they click on.

I’m a hacker, so I would love to be able to install any software I want on my iPhone, and introspect it in other ways.

Most users, however, would have a way worse experience using their phone if they were given this option, because a non-trivial percentage of them would follow the tutorials online provided to them by malware authors to install their malware.

This is precisely what happened to desktop computers. Has everyone forgotten about Bonsai Buddy?

People who want a general purpose, configurable device that can run any code they want on it have options. They’re big, clunky, out of date phones.

Apple is being punished for their success here. They happen to make the best phone hardware at the moment, and they bundle the best phone hardware with cryptographically-enforced editorial decisions about the best software that runs on it.

I think the real danger here is that of censorship: if the state commands Apple to delete (or actively remote-disable) certain apps, a huge problem exists. Today it’s WeChat or TikTok. What if tomorrow it’s Signal? iMessage’s encryption has already been backdoored for the feds in the default configuration via iCloud Backup (which is not end to end encrypted and backs up the entirety of chat history from the device to Apple each night). The state could literally command Apple to prohibit any type of secure communication from the device via this method and they’d have to comply, and iPhone-owners would have no recourse due to the DRM. That’s the real danger.

There’s a real argument to not allowing Apple to do this, but I don’t think “consumer choice” is it. Consumer choice chose the walled garden over the anarchy of Desktop Computer Malware.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#77
post #52
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple clearly has competitors that have a much larger share of the market.

When people talk about Apple having a monopoly they're referring to Apple having complete control over the sale of iOS software. There is no one else in that market. Apple has 100% market share.

Correct. The relevant terms are "horizontal monopoly" and "vertical monopoly."

A horizontal monopoly is if one company made all the cars.

A vertical monopoly is if one car manufacturer owned all the roads in Detroit and only their cars were authorized to drive on those roads.

Apple is a vertical monopoly across its hardware, the software that runs on that hardware (they don't own the software, but they own the distribution channel), and some of the suppliers that manufacture components for the hardware.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#78

If I build an operating system + hardware, should I be legally mandated to provide tooling to make it easy for users to find and install arbitrary software?

I don't think you should be legally mandated to make it easy, but if you sell a product to someone you shouldn't be allowed to stop them using it in the way they want to. If you do choose to retain control over how they can use the device then you should accept there might need to be regulation over what limits you can put in place in order to stop you doing things that are anti-competitive.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#79
Epic went about this all wrong. They should have started by making a public campaign touting their support of developers using Unreal Engine in the App Store.

Epic should have started by offering to cover half of Apple's App Store fee for Unreal Engine devs, and made the story about supporting their own developers AND about how Apple was charging too much.

Any coalition should have been with other companies doing the same thing with people building on their platforms. This would have gotten much more positive and sustainable publicity and would have allowed them to make the case that all developers should be paying less fees.

Instead they made it about Fortnite and themselves. Epic blew this.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#80
But, can we just say: fck Fortnite. This is the wolf calling for homes to be built of straw. We hate “free to play”/“pay to win” and in-app purchases. We HATE* them. Thank god that Apple is taking a stand. I haven’t been so happy with a company since they refused to unlock that dude’s phone in California a few years back. (Which, I know, the lawsuit ended the same day an iOS “security” patch came out.) Seriously. If you can’t make money by playing by the rules, GTFO.
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