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Amazon details its low-bandwidth Sidewalk neighborhood network

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Re: Amazon details its low-bandwidth Sidewalk neighborhood network

#71

Post by seattletech »

ponker wrote: post #36
01100011 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use 'rclone' and 'motion' to push video and images to my google drive account. If I wanted to, I could easily encrypt it first. I think it's superior to most cloud video providers. I don't think most LE agencies would think to check something like Google Drive for active video feeds. I also delete anything over 3 days(thanks rclone) and use a script which detects the presence of either my wife's or my phone on our…

That's cool but accessible to about 0.1% of the population.

So a standard HN solution then

Re: Amazon details its low-bandwidth Sidewalk neighborhood network

#72

Post by acruns »

I worked with a casion who uses BLE to track you throughout their properties that is similar to this idea. The BLE along with their own data (w/l and how much) plus their app (https://www2.mgmresorts.com/app/) gave them every detail they needed to keep you playing slots. Headed for the front doors, boom free credit, headed to the elevators, free buffet, sitting by the pool for too long, new tables are opening, you get the idea. And of course since they own half the casions in vegas they can track you as you go to other casinos. Want to do fun stuff? Who is in your room with you? how long? where in your room? How long does it take you to get ready before heading to the show? What time did you go to bed / get up? What did you have for dinner, who did you have dinner with? Who did you chat with in the lobby and for how long? Where did they go after your chat? Where did you go? On and on. Not that they collect and use that data (see how I said collect and use?) but they could. They are only interested in your spending your money and could really care less who and how you have sex with or if you met up with a local coke dealer in the lobby, but cops might, it's all too much IMO.

Alot of you are devs, let your mind run wild with the data you could collect and sell, and then tell me if anything amzaon released yesterday isn't creppy.

Re: Amazon details its low-bandwidth Sidewalk neighborhood network

#73

Post by woah »

larrydag wrote: post #67
anigbrowl wrote: post #20

Low bandwidth mesh networking is super interesting but I would prefer not to have it supplied by Buy'n'Large.

I'm surprised more hobbyists haven't developed public mesh networks. There are so many wireless routers and devices that this seems like a great opportunity. I would think makerspaces would be all over this idea. https://www.nycmesh.net/blog/how/

Building and running a network that is useful (fast and reliable enough) for home internet use is a full time job, and is hard work. This is why most hacker space mesh networks have not achieved anything close to this. NYC mesh is the one notable exception, but this is because it is someone’s full time job, and it is run in a pretty professional manner, like a small wireless ISP.

The alternative, a network that is not fast and reliable enough for home internet use, is another option. But in that case, what IS it useful for? These efforts usually just end up turning into weekly hack nights / hangouts for the mesh group, since there’s no real point in putting up hardware.

A third hurdle is that if you put together 12 random nerds in a hacker space, the odds that any of them can see any of the other nerds houses from their house is basically zero. Since wireless internet radios require line of sight, it’s very hard to even create the first link in the network in this scenario. Getting critical mass to form any kind of network in a neighborhood requires door to door sales, something that most mesh networking nerds are very bad at.

Re: Amazon details its low-bandwidth Sidewalk neighborhood network

#74

Post by ogre_codes »

anigbrowl wrote: post #20

Low bandwidth mesh networking is super interesting but I would prefer not to have it supplied by Buy'n'Large.

Amazon is my gross secret. I find much of what they do disgusting, but I still have Amazon Prime, still shop Amazon a fair bit. As abhorrent as it is, it's also just too convenient.

That's why I also own shares in the company. They are just too damned sticky and too damned good at so many things.

It reminds me of that scene from Clerks II. It's the most disgusting company I've ever seen... but I can't make myself move away.

Re: Amazon details its low-bandwidth Sidewalk neighborhood network

#75

Post by larrydag »

woah wrote: post #73
larrydag wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised more hobbyists haven't developed public mesh networks. There are so many wireless routers and devices that this seems like a great opportunity. I would think makerspaces would be all over this idea. https://www.nycmesh.net/blog/how/

Building and running a network that is useful (fast and reliable enough) for home internet use is a full time job, and is hard work. This is why most hacker space mesh networks have not achieved anything close to this. NYC mesh is the one notable exception, but this is because it is someone’s full time job, and it is run in a pretty professional manner, like a small wireless ISP. The alternative, a network that is no…

You lay out some really good challenges for establishing a decent public net

1) Maintenance. What are the challenges of maintaining? Hardware? Balancing network? Software integration?

2) Speed. What are the barriers for making fast and affordable?

3) Distance. What are the hurdles for last mile?

This has been telecom's unicorn for a long time. Fiber, wireless, satellite, cable where all promised to deliver. I think there is something with mesh networks and free software that can break this barrier. I don't know exactly what it would be but it still seems like a possibility to me.

Re: Amazon details its low-bandwidth Sidewalk neighborhood network

#76

Post by jdeibele »

larrydag wrote: post #67
anigbrowl wrote: post #20

Low bandwidth mesh networking is super interesting but I would prefer not to have it supplied by Buy'n'Large.

I'm surprised more hobbyists haven't developed public mesh networks. There are so many wireless routers and devices that this seems like a great opportunity. I would think makerspaces would be all over this idea. https://www.nycmesh.net/blog/how/

Back in the dark ages, there were hobbyists who would order alarm circuits ($6/month) and pay for the DSL equipment on each side. This let them connect to the internet back as it was in 1992 or so.

The problem with this was that you had to know somebody who would be willing to be the other side of your connection. That obviously didn't scale very well.

Portland tried having a [free WiFi](https://www.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2008/06/portlands_wi...) setup with antennas mounted on streetlights. The goal was to have 95% of the city covered but most people needed a signal booster to reach the antennas and very few people did that. My guess is that even if they did that the bandwidth would have been really slow.

There have been a couple of attempts to do a mesh network in Portland with hobbyists but it's really hard. People have moved from computers to phones, tablets, and dedicated devices like Rokus or smart TVs.

A tech support manager I worked with said "these people don't want to be taught how to catch a fish. They want us to catch the fish, cook it, and serve it with a smile."

Some people are OK with amateur performance - there's no internet because Betty went away for the weekend and isn't there to re-boot the router - but most people aren't.

Re: Amazon details its low-bandwidth Sidewalk neighborhood network

#77

Post by jvp »

acruns wrote: post #72

I worked with a casion who uses BLE to track you throughout their properties that is similar to this idea. The BLE along with their own data (w/l and how much) plus their app ( https://www2.mgmresorts.com/app/ ) gave them every detail they needed to keep you playing slots. Headed for the front doors, boom free credit, headed to the elevators, free buffet, sitting by the pool for too long, new tables are opening, you…

But everything you described needs the app to be installed. No app, no problem.

Re: Amazon details its low-bandwidth Sidewalk neighborhood network

#78

Post by cmiles74 »

jvp wrote: post #77
acruns wrote: post #72

I worked with a casion who uses BLE to track you throughout their properties that is similar to this idea. The BLE along with their own data (w/l and how much) plus their app ( https://www2.mgmresorts.com/app/ ) gave them every detail they needed to keep you playing slots. Headed for the front doors, boom free credit, headed to the elevators, free buffet, sitting by the pool for too long, new tables are opening, you…

But everything you described needs the app to be installed. No app, no problem.

If the people who install the application are not aware of how invasive the tracking is, I believe that would be the problem.

Re: Amazon details its low-bandwidth Sidewalk neighborhood network

#79

Post by walrus01 »

jl2718 wrote: post #47
dano wrote: post #22

LoRa is super interesting and this is an absolutely logical step for Amazon and for Google Home. Providing ubiquitous gateways for IoT devices could enable an entirely new markets. Not everyone wants to spend $150 for a LoRaWAN gateway, nor do they see the value in doing so. Devices that come pre-configured with LoRa and can connect to a network through an Echo / Nest / Home device will function right out of the box.…

> The marginal cost of adding something like LoRa or BLE to existing Internet connections is essentially zero. It is so painful to watch Comcast fail a completely captive customer base in IoT. It would be so easy for them to become the centerpiece of a wide array of independent companies developing devices. Instead they hand the customers to Gooplezon for zero benefit. Comcast, you ignored my job application to do th…

If you'd ever worked for a giant ISP you wouldn't be begging to work for Comcast.

Re: Amazon details its low-bandwidth Sidewalk neighborhood network

#80

Post by dannyw »

asim wrote: post #53

Side note: Is it me or has Amazon been announcing a lot of things lately? I think the fact that Amazon is beginning to rule the fabric of the world and is controlled by the richest man in the world makes me slightly uneasy. I can't really place it right now but something tells me a decade from now this is going to be a big problem and they were just left unchecked to proliferate throughout the world until we became e…

Hedge against that by buying their shares. Sometimes I think the big caps are just call options on future corpo-governments.
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