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FB to curb internal debate over sensitive issues amid employee discord

wsj.com

71–80 of 527 posts

Re: FB to curb internal debate over sensitive issues amid employee discord

#71
post #8

How about bringing the same rules to the wider FB? I just want to look at baby pictures and connect with friends. I don't want to be part of a machinery that spreads misinformation and conspiracy theories.

Right, because all societal issues will just go away if we close our eyes and ignore them.

We could call it Whitebook.

Re: FB to curb internal debate over sensitive issues amid employee discord

#72
post #5

At 3 paragraphs (131 words), that was a really short article. However, I agree with the subheading: "Mark Zuckerberg says employees shouldn’t have to confront social issues in their day-to-day work unless they want to" That sounds good to me. I've never had to talk about these kind of things at work. Are there work places where this is unavoidable?

That depends on if your existence is political I suppose. Ask some of your LGBT colleagues, especially trans colleagues, if they feel like can just leave politics at the door.

Re: FB to curb internal debate over sensitive issues amid employee discord

#73
post #32

Generally I try and shy away from being too alarmist, but I am so disillusioned with the kind of tech worker HN's userbase seems to represent. I think it's a feckless attitude to think that working in one of the best-paid, global, most influential professions in the world right now means that your only obligation is to clock in on time, code whatever you're told to code, take no ownership of the effect your work may…

I think it's reasonable for someone working on, say, scaling the photo storage service to say that their work is apolitical and these debates aren't relevant to them. The performance characteristics of Facebook photos aren't going to incite a genocide or contribute to the global rise of authoritarianism.

Re: FB to curb internal debate over sensitive issues amid employee discord

#74
post #39
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. There are places where employees MUST go in these meetings that talk about social differences, inclusions, diversity, etc.

Everyone has to discuss diversity at work because there are laws prohibiting discrimination, that's a good thing. Not everyone has to discuss politics at work.

I'd love it if there was a difference between the two again.

Re: FB to curb internal debate over sensitive issues amid employee discord

#75
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't that only happening because of FB allowing disinformation to spread so easily?

Curious how you think it's possible for FB to prevent the spread of disinformation? Everyone likes to pretend like Facebook has the ability to just stop disinformation, when in reality, even defining "disinformation" is basically impossible. Sure, you can bring up examples of blatant lies, but most of the effective disinformation is a lot more subtle and depends on what side of the issues you are on.

I have seen this question asked many times on such threads but have never seen a workable solution. Usually the response is something like "I'd shut the whole website down" or "I'd employ millions of moderators" or "I'd allow people to only post once a month" or "I would remove sharing links, only baby pictures allowed". Nothing practical. If you respond to any of these with examples of positive speech that would be harmed, there is no response. For example, if you curb political speech, people wouldn't be able to organise political protests. People wouldn't even agree on what should be considered 'political'. For example, is organising a BLM event political? Should it be allowed under the proposed rules?

I'm happy to be proven wrong though. Maybe this is the thread where people will make practical suggestions.

Re: FB to curb internal debate over sensitive issues amid employee discord

#76
post #8

How about bringing the same rules to the wider FB? I just want to look at baby pictures and connect with friends. I don't want to be part of a machinery that spreads misinformation and conspiracy theories.

I'd give that about 10 minutes before someone started claiming that their baby was immune to covid, and then you're right back where you started.

> claiming that their baby was immune to covid

Some people are indeed immune to covid, babies too, most probably. I've personally heard of numerous cases of persons not getting the virus at all while their spouse was in intensive therapy or worse.

Re: FB to curb internal debate over sensitive issues amid employee discord

#77
post #8

How about bringing the same rules to the wider FB? I just want to look at baby pictures and connect with friends. I don't want to be part of a machinery that spreads misinformation and conspiracy theories.

I want an option to pay a yearly or monthly fee, that lets them still make money, but also protect my privacy.

Ha ha ha, they make too much money on you to allow that. Protecting your privacy can't happen at the platform end, because of the nature of the network itself. And there would be too few people that would pay for this feature, it would limit their ability to grow. Which is ultimately what it's about; the stock price.

Re: FB to curb internal debate over sensitive issues amid employee discord

#78
post #53
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

political views !== who you think deserves human rights

And this is the reason things have changed so much: Step 1: first, identify truly evil people (like self-avowed white supremacists) Step 2: find a unfalsifable or weak method to associate non-evil people with the evil ones. Step 3: once this method becomes part of the zeitguist, infer the association implies agreement. Step 4: once agreement is assumed when stating the association, imply the person's agreement is in…

Yup. This is worthy of a top comment. That’s exactly how it works. Things will never get better if everyone keeps ostracizing people they disagree with. My family is Republican, Libertarian, and Democrat. No greens yet, but it wouldn’t surprise me. We have great conversations and no one thinks anyone is Hitler or Pol Pot. I really hope the current zeitgeist dies a quick death.

Re: FB to curb internal debate over sensitive issues amid employee discord

#79
post #8

How about bringing the same rules to the wider FB? I just want to look at baby pictures and connect with friends. I don't want to be part of a machinery that spreads misinformation and conspiracy theories.

And if someone even mentions the idea of creating exactly this service -- baby pictures and friends' contact information can be exported from Facebook and imported into such a service -- a torrent of HN commenters would decry "fail" before they even tried it. Tech bloggers and "journalists" would also inject doubt into the minds of their readers. To get to where you want to go, you would need to ignore the critics. To accomplish what you describe, there is no necessity that every user logs in to the same network. Each network would only need to contain family and friends. Connecting one network to another would be optional. You are not asking to be in a graph with the entire world, to be connected to total strangers. Yet that is precisely what FB is constantly trying to achieve. Every person's information collected in a single database controlled by a single entity. One "social" network for everyone. Hence you are connected to people and companies you do not know, who are not your friends or family. Your behaviour can be studied. The ads, marketing and misinformation can flow freely.

(FB == Fish Bowl)

Re: FB to curb internal debate over sensitive issues amid employee discord

#80

How is this different from silencing employee objections to unethical corporate practices? It’s not merely “talking politics at work” to point out that, for example, your company’s practices are helping a political party steal an election. That’s an ethical concern, not a political one.

> your company’s practices are helping a political party steal an election

Nobody is stealing anything, as the rules are set right now influencing public opinion through media channels is not seen as "stealing". If the powers that be were to physically alter the votes and the voting process that would be another discussion, but almost everything presented in the media is fair game.

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