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433% Keyboard

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Re: 433% Keyboard

#71

Post by gonehome »

EForEndeavour wrote: post #57
sascha_sl wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can keep the normal layout on a 40%, you just wouldn't have number/function/nav keys without layers 40% is not just plank, and I personally find the ergonomics of a plank board to be rather bad compared to staggered, unless it's split.

That reminds me, I consider losing arrow keys a dealbreaker. I use them frequently enough to navigate both text and code in various contexts (except in Vim, which I don't use exclusively). I already hold modifiers to jump to next/prev word boundary, page, start/end of continuous data ranges in Excel, etc. Admittedly, I'd probably adapt, but I'm held back by the belief that any ergonomic advantages of moving to wasd o…

HHKB has worked well for me, it moves the arrow keys closer to your right hand in a much better location than most 60% boards default.

You can easily use your right pinky to hit Fn and then use the arrow keys that are right under your fingers (I think it's actually better than normal keyboard arrow key placement).

I don't think I could go below a 60% board because having the number row is too useful and dealing with function layers for that (and memorizing symbol placement) seems like an unnecessary pain for style.

Re: 433% Keyboard

#72

Post by TurplePurtle »

fizixer wrote: post #30

Hate to be that person, but I'm surprised people like mech keyboards. I ordered one, hated it so much, I actually decided to return it. Too loud, too much force required to type. My ideal keyboard is the low-profile laptop keyboard, especially the thinkpad one, the one before chiclet keys became a fad.

To be honest I love "mech keyboards" not really because of the mechanical keys, but because people make them in so many customized sizes and colors. But there's not really a good term for this as far as I'm aware.

Re: 433% Keyboard

#73

Post by SuperPaintMan »

EForEndeavour wrote: post #57
sascha_sl wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can keep the normal layout on a 40%, you just wouldn't have number/function/nav keys without layers 40% is not just plank, and I personally find the ergonomics of a plank board to be rather bad compared to staggered, unless it's split.

That reminds me, I consider losing arrow keys a dealbreaker. I use them frequently enough to navigate both text and code in various contexts (except in Vim, which I don't use exclusively). I already hold modifiers to jump to next/prev word boundary, page, start/end of continuous data ranges in Excel, etc. Admittedly, I'd probably adapt, but I'm held back by the belief that any ergonomic advantages of moving to wasd o…

With light switches and a compact layout it's not too bad for navigation. My default for arrows is LeftThumb+HJKL, so it's quicker and more natural then diving for the arrow keys. I also have overloaded alphas (Ctrl on a or ;, Shift on Z/?, etc) so Ctrl-Shift-Up maps to A+Z+LeftThumb+K. Seems a little bonkers but it only took a few days to adjust to my GergoPlex [0][1]

The bigger issue with adding more keys to the mix is that with heavier switches (35g+) the amount of work/stress done by the hand can be more then a traditional keyboard. But even with heavier switches it's often faster then having to move your hands around the physical board. And once you factor in things like combos you can just map End to something like QW or whatever works for you. Programmable input devices are _really_ weird!

[0] https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rRS_TOYuIQQ/XhRERox3moI/AAAAAAABE...

[1] https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex

Re: 433% Keyboard

#74

Post by simias »

EForEndeavour wrote: post #57
sascha_sl wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can keep the normal layout on a 40%, you just wouldn't have number/function/nav keys without layers 40% is not just plank, and I personally find the ergonomics of a plank board to be rather bad compared to staggered, unless it's split.

That reminds me, I consider losing arrow keys a dealbreaker. I use them frequently enough to navigate both text and code in various contexts (except in Vim, which I don't use exclusively). I already hold modifiers to jump to next/prev word boundary, page, start/end of continuous data ranges in Excel, etc. Admittedly, I'd probably adapt, but I'm held back by the belief that any ergonomic advantages of moving to wasd o…

I don't have arrow keys on my board but I have something better: I have a special modifier that lets me use readline-style commands (C-n for down, C-p for up, C-h for backspace, C-d for delete etc...) anywhere without requiring the app to support it, since it sends the compatible down/up/backspace/delete/... keycode instead.

I finally don't have to worry about this or that program not supporting this or that binding, it's uniform everywhere.

You say that you already use hjkl (I assume?) in Vim, so clearly you have the muscle memory for that, why not extend it to all applications?

And there's so much more to programmable keyboards. Modifier keys that input characters when pressed on their own, allowing for dual function. Some people like remapping caps lock to control, others to escape. Why not both? My keyboard has a key that behaves like control when chorded and like escape when pressed on its own. The best of both worlds!

Re: 433% Keyboard

#75

Post by simias »

sascha_sl wrote: post #45
EForEndeavour wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sort of WPM did you have on normal keyboards, and whta have you been able to train up to on your current one? I plateaued at roughly 35 WPM on Dvorak as a teenager and have been hesitant to commit to major layout changes since then, despite the ergonomic promises that a lot of them make.

You can keep the normal layout on a 40%, you just wouldn't have number/function/nav keys without layers 40% is not just plank, and I personally find the ergonomics of a plank board to be rather bad compared to staggered, unless it's split.

I definitely agree with you here, I like split ortho a lot (I'm typing this on an ergodox) but I'm super doubtful of any benefit for non-split orthos. My arms don't sprout from the center of my chest!

Re: 433% Keyboard

#77

Post by moron4hire »

ardy42 wrote: post #16

All of the images are now offline (some google drive traffic limit?), but the internet archive managed to capture one : https://web.archive.org/web/20200916174120/https://relivesig... The image itself: https://web.archive.org/web/20200916210058/https://doc-14-a0...

Is this a troll? I mean, why make a custom keyboard with even one pause/break key, let alone... Three?

Re: 433% Keyboard

#79

Post by alpaca128 »

moron4hire wrote: post #77
ardy42 wrote: post #16

All of the images are now offline (some google drive traffic limit?), but the internet archive managed to capture one : https://web.archive.org/web/20200916174120/https://relivesig... The image itself: https://web.archive.org/web/20200916210058/https://doc-14-a0...

Is this a troll? I mean, why make a custom keyboard with even one pause/break key, let alone... Three?

Did you consider that those keys aren't actually what it says on the labels because one-off keyboards with more than 100% of the standard layout have keys that no correct labeling exists for?

Re: 433% Keyboard

#80

Post by mindslight »

jcrawfordor wrote: post #64

I regularly use what I call a "140% keyboard" which has a total of 140 keys. This is the regular 104-key layout with added keys in various places such as between the alphanumeric and F key section, filling the gaps between cursor keys and the block above it, etc. The keyboard has on-board macro programming and multi-layer logic. I use it for things like having keys which jump directly to specific windows, keys which…

Do you happen to have a picture of the layout? I too wish for a keyboard with more keys, especially vertically. But besides an extra row or two of F-keys, I haven't come up with any logical extensions.
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