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Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

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Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#71

Post by metageek »

njs12345 wrote: post #54
gaius wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, that may be a factor, but I doubt it's the main one. Lots of American HN users seem to be pretty Liberal in their political outlook, and that's fine. But consider Germany, with a welfare state that looks after you from cradle to grave. If you want to start a startup there then you'd better have your EUR 20,000 in capital minimum, and you'd better do all the paperwork and comply with all the regulations and have…

I don't see any causative link here between the welfare state and excessive bureaucracy starting a company - would you mind explaining your thinking?

A state that incurs high welfare costs when a company fails has an interest in reducing the number of failing companies. One way to do that is to require new companies to have capital, hire qualified employees, etc.

(No, I'm not taking a position on whether that's a good idea. I am not an economist, and I try not to play one on the Net.)

Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#72

Post by kragen »

elliottcarlson wrote: post #70
kragen wrote: post #66

Some other important look-and-feel clones: Windows (copying MacOS) Lotus 1-2-3 (copying VisiCalc) GNU/Linux (copying Unix) Gosling Emacs (copying ITS and Multics Emacs), which eventually became GNU Emacs Excel (copying Lotus 1-2-3, to the point that VisiCalc slash commands still work in Excel last time I tried them about five years ago) OpenOffice (copying Microsoft Office) C compilers everywhere (copying the origina…

Though there is something wrong with directly copying UI elements with just a text change - that should be completely frowned upon and called out imho. Other than that - competition is good, and imitation should be seen as you are doing something good, now just make sure you can keep up or do it better consistently unless you want your competition to take over the market share.

> Though there is something wrong with directly copying UI elements with just a text change - that should be completely frowned upon and called out imho.

Almost all of my examples could be accurately described that way in their first version. Maybe not Windows 1.0, not Facebook, and I think not Wordpress, and there may have been a couple of other exceptions. MercadoLibre still looks exactly like eBay to me.

Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#73

Post by elliottcarlson »

bad_user wrote: post #69
uniclaude wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in China (well, 40% of my time), work for a social network, and I think you're wrong. Tumblr is sometimes blocked here, and I would bet that it's going to have the same destiny as Facebook and Twitter here. The local Facebook clones work very well here, as does the local Twitter clone (that employs something like 500people). Meanwhile, the "originals" are blocked, and only people who can access internet throug…

So basically this is a business model that can only survive because of restrictions set by the current government. What will happen if China and the US reach some kind of agreement, and unlocking online US-services will be part of it? AND when cloning physical goods (like phones, cars, clothes, shoes, whatever) -- you can export them, since people are willing to pay lower prices for clones. How can you export a Tumbl…

From what I understand, micro-transactions for virtual goods is a lot more common in places like China, and if you can offer custom themes or other "value-added" services to these clones, you can monetize off of that - must like Farmville makes money on selling people special seeds.

If China and the US reach some kind of agreement - and the services were unlocked - there would already be enough of a market share for the existing clones to maintain control over that market. Future clones would still have a chance in succeeding as well depending on the race to localisation of the products in the local language and demographics.

Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#74

Post by raymondhome »

kragen wrote: post #66

Some other important look-and-feel clones: Windows (copying MacOS) Lotus 1-2-3 (copying VisiCalc) GNU/Linux (copying Unix) Gosling Emacs (copying ITS and Multics Emacs), which eventually became GNU Emacs Excel (copying Lotus 1-2-3, to the point that VisiCalc slash commands still work in Excel last time I tried them about five years ago) OpenOffice (copying Microsoft Office) C compilers everywhere (copying the origina…

No, go take a look at Diandian vs Tumblr and tell me whether Diandia's website is a carbon copy of Tumbr's website.

Since when is cloning another website defensible?

Look, if you want do a Tumblr-like startup, sure by all means go ahead. But why do you have to clone your competition's website?

Competition is good. Friendster begets Myspace begets Facebook. When Facebook was first launched in 2004, do you think people say,"Another Myspace clone."? No, they say, "Another Mysapce-like startup."

Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#75

Post by elliottcarlson »

kragen wrote: post #72
elliottcarlson wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though there is something wrong with directly copying UI elements with just a text change - that should be completely frowned upon and called out imho. Other than that - competition is good, and imitation should be seen as you are doing something good, now just make sure you can keep up or do it better consistently unless you want your competition to take over the market share.

> Though there is something wrong with directly copying UI elements with just a text change - that should be completely frowned upon and called out imho. Almost all of my examples could be accurately described that way in their first version. Maybe not Windows 1.0, not Facebook, and I think not Wordpress, and there may have been a couple of other exceptions. MercadoLibre still looks exactly like eBay to me.

That's because it's eBay's Latin American partner and eBay has a 19.5% ownership interest in MercadoLibre - not to mention eBay sold off iBazar to MercadoLibre in that process.

Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#76

Post by metageek »

Hipchan wrote: post #2

As much as it pains me as a person who values intellectual property, I have to admit that copying is a valid and important strategy. At least half (anyone know of a more educated number?) of the development in Asia since the Meji Restoration consists of pasting Western ideas. I hope this means that all startups take the internationalization seriously from the beginning. Hopefully we can get some sort of solid service…

>pasting Western ideas.

There's a difference between ideas and the expression of those ideas; that's why patent and copyright are separate. What's being complained about here goes beyond copying ideas, into copying expression.

Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#77

Post by njs12345 »

metageek wrote: post #71
njs12345 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any causative link here between the welfare state and excessive bureaucracy starting a company - would you mind explaining your thinking?

A state that incurs high welfare costs when a company fails has an interest in reducing the number of failing companies. One way to do that is to require new companies to have capital, hire qualified employees, etc. (No, I'm not taking a position on whether that's a good idea. I am not an economist, and I try not to play one on the Net.)

That is true, but one can certainly envisage such measures harming the state in the long run - increased bureaucracy might prevent some companies from starting which would succeed and therefore deprive the state of tax revenue. One Google would cover the costs of a lot of failed startups :)

(Not really an economist either, although I do have a little training in the area..)

Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#78

Post by RickHull »

brown9-2 wrote: post #60

Why is Google mentioned in the headline? They have nothing to do with this story. Might as well list all of the schools this guy attended in the headline as well.

I have never heard of Kai-Fu Lee, and I gather he made his name via Google, so the context was useful for me.

Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#79

Post by cdavid »

mhd wrote: post #58
gaius wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, that may be a factor, but I doubt it's the main one. Lots of American HN users seem to be pretty Liberal in their political outlook, and that's fine. But consider Germany, with a welfare state that looks after you from cradle to grave. If you want to start a startup there then you'd better have your EUR 20,000 in capital minimum, and you'd better do all the paperwork and comply with all the regulations and have…

Wow. Is this "everything I need to know about Germany, I learned from Fox News"? Let me pick apart the pieces 1) 20k minimum for startups You're confusing a few things here. The costs to form a company depend on what kind of legal form you want it to have. What you're talking about is the GmbH (basically a LLC), where you actually need 25k of capital. This is by far not the only form a company can take. If you just w…

Concerning the 35 hrs/week: it is the legal duration for work above which you are supposed to pay a higher hourly rate. It is NOT a maximum, and many people work more than 35 hrs/week (the figures for working hours are pretty similar between France, UK and Germany, with UK having the lower on average IIRC, but I cannot find the figure ATM).

Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#80

Post by guard-of-terra »

kragen wrote: post #66

Some other important look-and-feel clones: Windows (copying MacOS) Lotus 1-2-3 (copying VisiCalc) GNU/Linux (copying Unix) Gosling Emacs (copying ITS and Multics Emacs), which eventually became GNU Emacs Excel (copying Lotus 1-2-3, to the point that VisiCalc slash commands still work in Excel last time I tried them about five years ago) OpenOffice (copying Microsoft Office) C compilers everywhere (copying the origina…

"I'm not sure who to credit with the modern blog, with its comment threads, "after the jump", and permalinks."

LiveJournal had them all, no idea if it was the first (as you show, it doesn't matter much).

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