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Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

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Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#71

Post by liability »

umvi wrote: post #65
roamerz wrote: post #61

While we are at it we should name some of these west coast fires after the politicians who have supported shutting down the forests to sensible resource management.

Yet west coast politicians want to stop calling them "wild fires" in favor of a new term "climate fires". So the question is, how much of these wildfires are due to climate change, and how much is due to bad forest "resource management" (not sure what this entails - preventing more frequent smaller fires with firefighting which causes bigger fires years later?) and how much to some other reason (water table depletion…

Premature attribution of cause to a fire also seems potentially harmful to arson investigations.

Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#72

Post by macinjosh »

TheRealSteel wrote: post #23
nemo44x wrote: post #21

Are we going to officially name every tornado? Every earthquake? The article leads with “we need more drama...” - I think we have enough, thank you. We need to consider the psychological affects of these things. We already stir people into collective panics for so many things. Do we need to add another? People need less anxiety in their lives.

We ABSOLUTELY need to make people panic about heatwaves. We need to make people lose sleep about it. Get distracted by it. Feel sick about. Climate change is going to kill millions if we don't act hard, and fast. We need a global, coordinated, war-like effort immediately to prevent the displacement of billions and a new world war. Coronavirus lockdown is not even going to be a blip on the radar compared to life on th…

Quit being a fear mongering alarmist. While it is measurable and real, there is zero evidence to show that climate change will necessarily kill millions. Humans have adapted and overcome, we will again.

The farce of climate alarmism is starting to show its cracks. For example, well known, long-time environmentalist Michael Shellenberger wrote an entire book on how unhelpful alarmism and panic is to really find solutions to climate change.

Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#73

Post by leto_ii »

derefr wrote: post #57
TheRealSteel wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We ABSOLUTELY need to make people panic about heatwaves. We need to make people lose sleep about it. Get distracted by it. Feel sick about. Climate change is going to kill millions if we don't act hard, and fast. We need a global, coordinated, war-like effort immediately to prevent the displacement of billions and a new world war. Coronavirus lockdown is not even going to be a blip on the radar compared to life on th…

I’d be down for preventing the accompanying world war, but I’m neutral about displacing billions. Maybe I’m just a naturally-nomadic person, but I don’t see anything too wrong with governments making ultra-long-term plans to negotiate a rewrite of all global geographical borders by “sliding” the definitions of all existing countries further away from the equator and toward the poles, abandoning existing cities “inlan…

> “sliding” the definitions of all existing countries further away from the equator and toward the poles

There is absolutely no way I can think of in which this could be done diplomatically. In the recent refugee crisis [1] a few million people moving in almost caused the EU to collapse.

It's mindbogglingly naive to imagine that hundreds of millions of people from the most affected areas will just be able to resettle in Northern countries.

Aside from this, I suspect that most people don't actually want to leave their homes unless they really have to. It would be a lot better to not have a need for mass migrations in the first place, rather than cross our fingers and hope for the best.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_migrant_crisis

Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#74

Post by simonsarris »

umvi wrote: post #65
roamerz wrote: post #61

While we are at it we should name some of these west coast fires after the politicians who have supported shutting down the forests to sensible resource management.

Yet west coast politicians want to stop calling them "wild fires" in favor of a new term "climate fires". So the question is, how much of these wildfires are due to climate change, and how much is due to bad forest "resource management" (not sure what this entails - preventing more frequent smaller fires with firefighting which causes bigger fires years later?) and how much to some other reason (water table depletion…

Pre-1800, about 1.8 million ha burned each year in CA:

https://www.sierraforestlegacy.org/Resources/Conservation/Fi...

> Approximately 1.8 million ha burned annually in California prehistorically (pre 1800). Our estimate of prehistoric annual area burned in California is 88% of the total annual wildfire area in the entire US during a decade (1994–2004) characterized as ‘‘extreme’’ regarding wildfires. The idea that US wildfire area of approximately two million ha annually is extreme is certainly a 20th or 21st century perspective. Skies were likely smoky much of the summer and fall in California during the prehistoric period.

See also: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rstb.201...

> Many consider wildfire as an accelerating problem [...] however, important exceptions aside, the quantitative evidence available does not support these perceived overall trends.

Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#76

Post by derefr »

quesera wrote: post #70
derefr wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be down for preventing the accompanying world war, but I’m neutral about displacing billions. Maybe I’m just a naturally-nomadic person, but I don’t see anything too wrong with governments making ultra-long-term plans to negotiate a rewrite of all global geographical borders by “sliding” the definitions of all existing countries further away from the equator and toward the poles, abandoning existing cities “inlan…

This idea is absurd to the point of lunacy. Since you have not provided any discussion on the enormous obvious objections, this is effectively a troll (can I use that word?). It's a comment bomb that would require dissenters to argue with specificities which you have declined to include, in some grossly asymmetric waste of time and energy. So I leave this response, in lieu of a downvote.

The objections are obvious, which is why I didn’t bother to include them. Anyone can think of them. People don’t bring this idea up, because it’s ridiculous on its face.

But I did bring it up, because I find myself wondering lately about the objections to those objections. Assume the objections; then try to work out a world where this happens anyway. Do we live in a world that’s anything like that world? What would have to be true, for this to end up being what we do?

For example: right now, during this pandemic, we have government medical officers the world over dictating what are effectively bylaws to cities, and what are effectively regulations to businesses. In a climate crisis — say, a country entering permanent heat wave, becoming entirely non-arable where it previously relied on internal food sourcing — could we potentially see see government ecological officers of such countries given similar powers? What would then happen at the UN, if some of those countries were prominent members?

Etc.

Keep in mind that I’m a science-fiction novelist, not a futurist. I care a lot more about the could-happen than the will-happen. :)

Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#77

Post by zspade »

jstanley wrote: post #59
Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #20

While we are at it, can we change some vocabulary used for sensitising climate change from ' For the planet ' to ' Your children will die soon, your grandchildren sooner '?

Why will your grandchildren die sooner than your children will?

It it strange phrasing to be sure. I interpreted it as sooner from birth (at younger ages).

Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#78

Post by V6HBGNQHU »

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #20

While we are at it, can we change some vocabulary used for sensitising climate change from ' For the planet ' to ' Your children will die soon, your grandchildren sooner '?

The plant will be fine and so will your children and their children. If you live in a low lying area like Maldives then they might not be living where you live now but they will certainly be able to live. Alarmist claims like "everyone will die" only serve to discredit scientists even though they aren't the ones making them.

Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#79

Post by KineticLensman »

thehappypm wrote: post #62
TheRealSteel wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We ABSOLUTELY need to make people panic about heatwaves. We need to make people lose sleep about it. Get distracted by it. Feel sick about. Climate change is going to kill millions if we don't act hard, and fast. We need a global, coordinated, war-like effort immediately to prevent the displacement of billions and a new world war. Coronavirus lockdown is not even going to be a blip on the radar compared to life on th…

How exactly does climate change lead to a world war? I can understand that there will be many climate refugees, but refugees don’t form armies that can stand up to a standing Western army. I’ve always understood the biggest threat to be mass displacement and starvation, leading to closed off borders, and poverty and death in severely impacted countries like Bangladesh. But world war? Not so sure. The world powers wil…

> For every city abandoned by floods, inland cities will swell in population and prestige

That will be poor consolation for the inhabitants of the flooded cities. Also, a lot of infrastructure (think docks and roads) is located on the coasts, often associated with the cities. This will be very expensive to replace in a carbon neutral way, especially as the sea levels continue to rise.

Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#80

Post by Brakenshire »

macinjosh wrote: post #69
Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Your children will and their children will be fine What about the children who died in the fires now in USA, in Australia, Floods in India and elsewhere all of which have been worse than ever in this century and the reason being attributed to climate change?

Humans of all ages have been killed by natural disasters as long as there has been humans. Nothing new. It is not like huge numbers of people are being killed by them all of a sudden. Increase in population and structure construction in these forests is why the toll seems higher now.

It’s that, and woodland management, and climate change.
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