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How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

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71–80 of 324 posts

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#71

The whole recycling scam makes me upset. For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. But it was all just shipped to China and then dumped into the oceans. It actually would've been better if it went to landfills, at least then it's safely contained. Another lie was that we're running out of landfill space, there's so much land out there. Like most environmental issues, the focus should've been on prod…

> the focus should've been on producers not consumers

on producers AND consumers. They're not exclusive. Producers have deceived, but consumers have been all too happy to suspend skepticism when buying things once the producer puts the word "recycle" on it somewhere. Consumers overwhelmingly skip the reduce part. Everyone I talk to about it, when they drop their defenses, says somewhere inside they knew they were participating but wanted to believe recycling was more benign than they knew it was. They just wanted their latte without thinking about it too much.

I'm not removing responsibility from producers or government. Consumers have a lot of power. Single-use plastic at least isn't hard to avoid with practice, at least to drop 90 percent of it. Just avoiding packaged food, with a few years practice the last I emptied my garbage was December and I expect my next emptying in 2022.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#72

The whole recycling scam makes me upset. For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. But it was all just shipped to China and then dumped into the oceans. It actually would've been better if it went to landfills, at least then it's safely contained. Another lie was that we're running out of landfill space, there's so much land out there. Like most environmental issues, the focus should've been on prod…

> For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. The message is and has been "reduce, reuse, recycle." Recycling has been sold from the very beginning as being the option of last resort.

Nobody wants to reduce their own consumption and the disposable, single use, “it’s not clean if it doesn’t come shrink wrapped in a plastic wrapper” mindset has all but destroyed “reuse”. All that’s left is lying to the public that recycling will make up the difference.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#73

The whole recycling scam makes me upset. For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. But it was all just shipped to China and then dumped into the oceans. It actually would've been better if it went to landfills, at least then it's safely contained. Another lie was that we're running out of landfill space, there's so much land out there. Like most environmental issues, the focus should've been on prod…

Thinking about this more, wasn't there a time, maybe late 90s early 2000s when the message was that plastic is more environmental than paper? Something like at the supermarket checkout you should pick plastic over paper bags to save rain forest trees? Is my memory wrong or was this a widespread message at the time?

I remember cashiers asking me "would you like to kill a tree or kill a fish?"

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#74
> And there are more documents, echoing decades of this knowledge, including one analysis from a top official at the industry's most powerful trade group. "The costs of separating plastics ... are high," he tells colleagues, before noting that the cost of using oil to make plastic is so low that recycling plastic waste "can't yet be justified economically."

I bet if you went back 40 years, there are all sorts of negative documents you can find about all sorts of tech. Think about solar. I bet if we went back, we could find experts talking about how it is is infeasible due to being too expensive or that rare earth minerals to too environmentally damaging to mine, or that it fluctuates too much.

Not saying what Big Plastic did was good, but using archives to find dissenting opinions about feasibility seems more like a gotcha fishing expedition.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#75

The whole recycling scam makes me upset. For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. But it was all just shipped to China and then dumped into the oceans. It actually would've been better if it went to landfills, at least then it's safely contained. Another lie was that we're running out of landfill space, there's so much land out there. Like most environmental issues, the focus should've been on prod…

> For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. The message is and has been "reduce, reuse, recycle." Recycling has been sold from the very beginning as being the option of last resort.

> Recycling has been sold from the very beginning as being the option of last resort.

Maybe in the most literal reading of that slogan, but a claim like this could really use some substantiation.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. The message is and has been "reduce, reuse, recycle." Recycling has been sold from the very beginning as being the option of last resort.

That may have been the intent, but that wasn't the result. Even though recycling is supposed to be the last resort, it was treated as an effective solution on its own instead. Less attention was paid to "reduce" and "reuse" and most of the attention was focused on "recycle"

Because “recycling” is easy if you just ship it to China and then they dump it in the ocean. Reducing and reusing take real effort and change in behavior.

If people had to recycle for real it would be more challenging and then reduce and reuse would be considered more often.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#78

The whole recycling scam makes me upset. For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. But it was all just shipped to China and then dumped into the oceans. It actually would've been better if it went to landfills, at least then it's safely contained. Another lie was that we're running out of landfill space, there's so much land out there. Like most environmental issues, the focus should've been on prod…

> But it was all just shipped to China and then dumped into the oceans.

I've heard this a lot of times, but I've never seen any source that claimed the recycled material sent to China gets dumped in the ocean. As I recall, they had paid a small amount of money for it, so it doesn't make sense why they would just throw it away.

I agree that landfills are underrated. It's much more effective to build landfills in poor countries than it is to try to sweep up plastic in the ocean, which may also hurt the environment.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#79

I'm not convinced that it's actually a bad thing to dump plastic and paper into a landfill. You just cover it up with dirt and plants every 20 years and build a new one, pretty low impact as long as you have it properly sealed off. Even gets rid of some CO2. Probably better than putting lots of energy into recycling when it isn't actually efficient to do so.

Paper isn’t bad because it breaks down quickly. Plastic has this bad habit of sticking around for 10,000 years (and longer).

Is that so bad? I mean, it was oil in the ground and now it is plastic in the ground. It seems like a kind of carbon sequestration, where 10,000 years is a feature, no?

Honestly curious.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#80
post #78

The whole recycling scam makes me upset. For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. But it was all just shipped to China and then dumped into the oceans. It actually would've been better if it went to landfills, at least then it's safely contained. Another lie was that we're running out of landfill space, there's so much land out there. Like most environmental issues, the focus should've been on prod…

> But it was all just shipped to China and then dumped into the oceans. I've heard this a lot of times, but I've never seen any source that claimed the recycled material sent to China gets dumped in the ocean. As I recall, they had paid a small amount of money for it, so it doesn't make sense why they would just throw it away. I agree that landfills are underrated. It's much more effective to build landfills in poor…

Yes. They are paying for the material as well as the shipping costs of the material.

China is a major source of ocean plastic, but I doubt it is because of widespread dumping of imported plastic into the ocean.

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