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Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

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Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#71

Post by eunos »

api wrote: post #69
sfifs wrote: post #46

0ne of the pieces many articles discussing Singapore miss is actually the quality of the people in the Government officer corps. This i think makes a massive amount of difference in that a lot of what's planned in infrastructure and processes is much better thought out and executed than in other countries. It's the equivalent of the 10X programmer philosophy. This is achieved largely by the government sponsoring the…

Interesting... I immediately contrast this with the American drive to make government work undesirable. This has led to a mass exodus of competence from government all the way to the top. Even the office of President is now sought by a bunch of third rate candidates: bland old bureaucrats, delusional ideologues unfit for the real world, and con men and narcissists like the current occupant of the office. Have we inte…

Well "Starve the Beast" exists . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#72

Post by jimmyvalmer »

TL;DR:

Gist: Described as SG's "original sin," Lee's detainment without trial of pro-Communist opposition in 1963 paves the way for one-man rule. Lee applies scientific rigor to backwater of Southeast Asia.

Theory 1: SG's small geography is uniquely tailored for Lee's centralism. Abstractions collapse and errors get magnified over larger distances (USSR, China, Brazil). Lee and Chinese premiere Jiang Zemin apply SG's model to Suzhou Industrial Park. Widely regarded as failure.

Theory 2: Strongman approach fails in Zimbabwe and North Korea because only Lee is wise enough to pull it off.

Timeline:

1819: Stamford Raffles colonizes sleepy Malay village.

1940s: Japan captures and oppresses SG during WW2. Britain gradually decolonizes in war's aftermath.

1950s: Moderate Lee and Communist sympathizer Lim Chin Siong emerge as leaders of Western-educated PAP party. Lim dominates Lee in charisma and Mandarin ability in rallying the key Chinese laborer demographic.

1956: Minister of SG Lim Yew Hock imprisons Lim and other Communist PAP leaders citing public safety.

1958: Mollified by Hock's anti-leftism, Britain entrusts SG with full self-governance in State of Singapore Act.

1959: Lee's PAP party wins election in landslide. Lee releases Lim and other imprisoned Communists.

1961: Lim splits from Lee over Malay merger (Lee is for, Lim is against), forming own party Barisan Sosialis.

1963: Lee wins Malay merger referendum. Lim accuses Lee of "cheating" and "threats." Lee builds case for Lim's potential for violent subversion. When Lim is discovered lunching with Brunei's rebel leader, Lee triggers "Operation Coldsore" detaining Lim and 113 others without trial. Lim was released after six years, moved to England and became a grocer.

1965: SG leaves Malaysian Federation. Lee cries on TV.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#73

Post by baybal2 »

hitekker wrote: post #66
baybal2 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is achieved largely by the government sponsoring the most promising/brilliant students to study in top Western universities and offering them quite competitive pay packages to join the government. And so do countless of other countries, some successful, some not. Much of Africa for example sends its brightest to Oxfords, and Harwards for exorbitant amounts of money. And there are counterexamples, very big ones…

> And there are counterexamples, very big ones at that. Countries where civil service is poorly paid What are the successful countries where civil servants are not compensated fairly?

USA, a big one.

Much of Europe for the second place?

As for Asia, Taiwanese are quite low despite high bar, South Korean, and Japanese were more or less equal to average white collar job. Malaysia can be though of as a mid income country, and their local government salaries lag behind white collar jobs.

China... is a special case

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#74

Post by dav43 »

ekianjo wrote: post #30
melbourne_mat wrote: post #26

Ask some of the million poorly paid foreign workers what they think of the success of Singapore - I'm sure the story won't be quite as glowing.

A lot of non-residents are actually going there for a better pay in the first place.

I guess it raises the question - in the instance of say FDW (Foreign domestic workers, who live with a number of families in Singapore) - just because it’s legal, does it make it right?

I don’t know.

Majority of maids live in 1.5m x 1.7m rooms, get paid ~450USD a month (anecdotal guess), are female and see their own kids for maybe two weeks a year, work 6 if not 7 days a week.

Is that a society we should aspire to?

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#75

Post by mochialex »

SyneRyder wrote: post #43
fakedang wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to type a disagree until you edited that last bit. I don't mind the authoritarianism, since the authorities seem very proactive towards encouraging foreign tech startups, but creativity is near zero and heavily sanitized, and most devs are poorly treated, I guess due to the massive glut of technical folks for the tiny population it has. Singapore feels so artificial, just like another Dubai. Going to Lond…

> Recently Singapore has been making a push for the arts, yet it's clearly evident how inorganic the output is Last time I went to Singapore I was struck by how it was impossible to buy any local music. I associate by music, so I always buy local music when I travel. But in Singapore's tiny music stores, I couldn't even find a Dick Lee CD for sale, and his music wasn't available through Australian iTunes. (In the end…

Speaking about art in SG. I find that street artists in Europe are way more better than those in SG. I’m always amazed by their skill and enthusiasm in my Europe trip. While back in SG, the only ones I see are art students or old uncles playing some music that you can hardly say “good”. This is sad.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#76

Post by turbonaut »

coconut_crab wrote: post #53

And let's not forget Singapore's strategic location in the center of world's busiest shipping lane too. That's why Singapore is strongly against the construction or Kra canal, which could shorten the route by ~1200 km bypassing Malacca straight: http://theindependent.sg/the-real-threat-to-spore-constructi...

Whilst it depends a bit which ships you count- the world’s busiest shipping lane is generally regarded to be the Straits of Dover with about 400 commercial transits per day. [1]

1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Dover

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#77

Post by ShorsHammer »

not_a_moth wrote: post #17

Singapore's population is very conservative, e.g. live with parents until marry, homosexuality is illegal, a lot of pressure against interracial couples (my experience), and essentially a single, dominant media voice. There is a militant approach to education which produces nice test results, but it doesn't produce young entrepreneurs, just conservative careers, helped by statutory hiring quotas. I don't think the Si…

> homosexuality is illegal

And yet the gay bars do roaring trade waving their flags outside, no real surprise, they are far more fun than many alternatives.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#78

Post by ethanbond »

thehappypm wrote: post #60
ethanbond wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get identical effects as Singapore’s state owned land without actually making it state owned/managed/priced by simply instituting a very high Land Value Tax. Rent collected for buildings/management/amenities goes to landlord, rent collected for the physical land upon which the building exists (which is valuable not because of the landlord) is recouped by the community as tax.

Higher taxes also directly cause higher rents passed on to renters.

Reiterating the other comment: this is not true of LVT. LVT cannot be passed on to renters. Essentially every other tax can be and is passed to consumers. No economist disputes LVT’s inability to be passed on.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#79

Post by finolex1 »

dav43 wrote: post #74
ekianjo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of non-residents are actually going there for a better pay in the first place.

I guess it raises the question - in the instance of say FDW (Foreign domestic workers, who live with a number of families in Singapore) - just because it’s legal, does it make it right? I don’t know. Majority of maids live in 1.5m x 1.7m rooms, get paid ~450USD a month (anecdotal guess), are female and see their own kids for maybe two weeks a year, work 6 if not 7 days a week. Is that a society we should aspire to?

Is that better than not allowing any such workers in at all (looking at most of Western Europe and the USA)?

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#80

Post by objektif »

postingawayonhn wrote: post #59
objektif wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? You can still start from zero and remain there.

Because there's lots of low hanging fruit in terms of infrastructure, education, technology, etc. You don't really need to innovate, you can just copy other successful countries.

Tell that to like almost all the countries in the world.
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