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What the world can learn from the UK's A-level grading fiasco

blogs.lse.ac.uk

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Re: What the world can learn from the UK's A-level grading fiasco

#71

Post by smcl »

makomk wrote: post #30
agent008t wrote: post #12

How did they deal with this problem in other countries, say Ireland or Japan?

It looks to me like Ireland was planning on using literally the exact same process, but after it caused such a political problem for the UK government they announced that data on how schools had previously performed wouldn't be used in the standardisation process: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/state_examin... (Notice how the linked explaination document from May 2020 says this would be the basis for…

Additionally Scotland had an similar issue - algorithmically adjusted grade estimates were discovered to have punished kids from poorer schools. This happened a few weeks earlier than the English A-Level results, which is interesting because the ruling party in the rest of the UK:

1. took a GREAT deal of pleasure in loudly trashing the Scottish government in the press ...

2. knew they faced the EXACT same issue themselves ...

3. did absolutely nothing about it ...

4. then did a frantic cleanup of the attacks (deleting tweets and such) after the English debacle unfolded

At this point I shouldn’t be surprised. It’s to be expected - they’re politicians playing their little game. But this debacle was avoidable - they could have faced the music earlier and started coming up with an alternative, but they chose instead to gloat, score a cheap win and kick the metaphorical can down the road.

Re: What the world can learn from the UK's A-level grading fiasco

#72

Post by pbhjpbhj »

nicoburns wrote: post #7
londons_explore wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The algorithm was the same one used for decades, and previously published. It pretty much says: > You get your exam grade. If that isn't available, you get a grade set by averaging your peers from the same school, with the set of peers decided by a ranking set by your teacher. If that isn't available, you get a grade chosen by your raking in class selected from the distribution of your schools past performance. There…

> There isn't really any fairer way that doesn't lead to grade inflation when there is an element of dishonesty/optimism on the part of teachers. IMO it's much better just to swallow the grade inflation for a year. It will naturally reset itself next year (when exams will be sat again), and the negative effect from it are pretty minimal. The algorithm is based on the assumption that performance of successive school y…

>The algorithm is based on the assumption that performance of successive school years at a given school is roughly consistent, not only as an average but as a distribution. And that assumption simply doesn't hold. //

It seems likely to hold pretty consistently.

What's the variation?

Re: What the world can learn from the UK's A-level grading fiasco

#73

Post by oh_sigh »

renewiltord wrote: post #68

Why not just hold the tests, except outside and far apart. They have stadiums and stuff. Honestly, this whole thing seems like a manufactured problem. You could hold them outside, and stagger them so there are ten papers, and then just normal-curve-adjust to the first paper. Other countries already do multi-day tests easily. And if you don't want to do curving, just treat it the way you treat GREs/IELTS/TOEFL etc. Do…

Maybe cheating? It would be easier to sneak a peek at your smartphone if one proctor has to cover an acre of students.

Re: What the world can learn from the UK's A-level grading fiasco

#74

Post by swyx »

oh_sigh wrote: post #73
renewiltord wrote: post #68

Why not just hold the tests, except outside and far apart. They have stadiums and stuff. Honestly, this whole thing seems like a manufactured problem. You could hold them outside, and stagger them so there are ten papers, and then just normal-curve-adjust to the first paper. Other countries already do multi-day tests easily. And if you don't want to do curving, just treat it the way you treat GREs/IELTS/TOEFL etc. Do…

Maybe cheating? It would be easier to sneak a peek at your smartphone if one proctor has to cover an acre of students.

if you can cheat a test off a smartphone its probably not a good test

Re: What the world can learn from the UK's A-level grading fiasco

#75

Post by pbhjpbhj »

bengillies wrote: post #25
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which can be explained by teachers assessments being too optimistic. Now we have reverted to that you can see the results, grade inflation. Of course students complained, I would if I didn't get the grades I was hoping for. That doesn't mean the government has to cave in and pretend everybody is a winner.

> Which can be explained by teachers assessments being too optimistic This can also be explained by teachers assessments being an accurate representation of students ability, but students traditionally not faring as well in exams as their ability would suggest due to exam taking being an additional unrelated skill. fwiw though, you only need to look at some of the outliers to see that the algorithm failed. It's all v…

Not really, predicted grades have exam taking ability built in. The predicted grade is the assessment of how the student will perform in the exam. Coursework that was completed was already marked and the component of that set normally.

Re: What the world can learn from the UK's A-level grading fiasco

#76

Post by smcl »

nicky0 wrote: post #66
makomk wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not closing schools was the government's preferred option for exactly the reason you point out. Unfortunately, the teachers' unions had different views on the matter and it's rather difficult to keep schools open without teachers, especially when they can easily just carry out a mass sick-out. Exam halls are probably a bit of a transmission risk though since they involve a bunch of people who wouldn't normally mix si…

Also once the schools have been closed it becomes a lot harder to properly prepare the pupils for the exams.

You’re right and this is often ignored - the few weeks or so prior to exams where the curriculum is largely over can significantly change your grades

Re: What the world can learn from the UK's A-level grading fiasco

#77

Post by oh_sigh »

swyx wrote: post #74
oh_sigh wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe cheating? It would be easier to sneak a peek at your smartphone if one proctor has to cover an acre of students.

if you can cheat a test off a smartphone its probably not a good test

Cheating via smartphone can encompass anything from directly looking up an answer, to sending someone the essay prompt and having them send you a completed essay which you just copy down.

Can you name a good test by your standards?

Re: What the world can learn from the UK's A-level grading fiasco

#78

Post by pbhjpbhj »

_0o6v wrote: post #26

Having worked with engineers and software managers in the UK Government, it doesn't surprise me that this was such a fuckup. The solution would have been not to completely close schools in the first place - there was no evidence that children were particularly susceptible to COVID or at risk then, and there's lots of evidence now that they aren't. Exams could well have taken place as normal - exam halls are, by defin…

Children spread viruses very effectively. Schools being open means a faster rise in infections, not just amongst school populations. Which means more deaths.

Re: What the world can learn from the UK's A-level grading fiasco

#79

Post by renewiltord »

oh_sigh wrote: post #73
renewiltord wrote: post #68

Why not just hold the tests, except outside and far apart. They have stadiums and stuff. Honestly, this whole thing seems like a manufactured problem. You could hold them outside, and stagger them so there are ten papers, and then just normal-curve-adjust to the first paper. Other countries already do multi-day tests easily. And if you don't want to do curving, just treat it the way you treat GREs/IELTS/TOEFL etc. Do…

Maybe cheating? It would be easier to sneak a peek at your smartphone if one proctor has to cover an acre of students.

That's fair. The ten tests thing still works. That's 1/10 the people occupying the same volume. Transmission is going to be minimal (or absent) if masked.
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