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Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

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Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#71

Post by hh3k0 »

anoxor wrote: post #16

Having been a part of a union I was mandated to enter when I took the job until the supreme court ruled that wasn't legal, actual unions are a far cry from how they are portrayed as helping the worker. I would honestly do anything in my power to not have to work in a union again. They are set up as antagonistic between administration and workers, and adds a layer of bureaucracy that I've only seen be negative. I've w…

Nice anecdata. Unions are necessary to ensure fair negotiations between employees and their employer, though. Any negotiation between a single employee and their employer is inherently unfair, as the latter holds far more power. Unions are a tried and true concept almost everywhere in the world, the Nordic Countries being a particulary good example. It'd seem that being unable to provide basic rights for workers is part of the fabled American exceptionalism -- together with the inability to provide universal healthcare, the monthly school shooting, and war in perpetuity.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#72

Post by AlexandrB »

MrStonedOne wrote: post #51
smnrchrds wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you call them goons? Politicians, activists, all sorts of people go door knocking around the time of elections and referendums. What made this interaction so different that you call them goons sent there to intimidate you, not activists trying to attract your vote?

corpitized unions (anything union organisation bigger then 1 location of 1 employer) are goons.

So what does that make corporations with more than 1 location?

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#73

Post by mattacular »

ouid wrote: post #58
mattacular wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would basic income and social safety nets increase labors negotiating power?

I assume you're asking this question in good faith. Negotiating power is derived exclusively from the ability to walk away. When walking away from your employment means being evicted, starving, and being unable to afford medical care, your ability to do so is crippled.

I was and all of the replies so far are assuming UBI would cover all basic necessities in the long term in every part of the country. Many people with above avg income TODAY struggle with medical bills and even housing. So I'm not sure I buy the argument that a UBI would be able to cover them unless many other things change first.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#74

Post by sacks2k »

mikestew wrote: post #30
anoxor wrote: post #16

Having been a part of a union I was mandated to enter when I took the job until the supreme court ruled that wasn't legal, actual unions are a far cry from how they are portrayed as helping the worker. I would honestly do anything in my power to not have to work in a union again. They are set up as antagonistic between administration and workers, and adds a layer of bureaucracy that I've only seen be negative. I've w…

Were I to base career choices on every one-off negative anecdote about a particular work scenario, I would have gone to live in a monastery years ago. Of course, I'm probably replying to a Pinkerton employee right now. But, yeah, unions bad.

The core of a union is bad for workers that excel You won't get paid what you are worth and will get held back when you want a raise. In almost all unions that I've encountered, if you want a raise, it's as a collective.

They also prevent technological advances and it only makes things more expensive for the consumer (Who do you think is fighting Uber and Lyft in major cities? Taxicab unions that were fleecing customers for decades and didn't need to add any convenience to customeers due to massive monopolies and the medallion system).

We also can't forget the police unions, which very system contributes to not firing bad cops..which results in brutality. This is never mentioned in our current discussions on race because the progressives in this country love unions and don't want anything to prevent their mass acceptance.

Unions are great for low-performing workers that get guaranteed raises and can't be fired for complete and utter incompetence.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#75

Post by marcusverus »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #8
gonzo41 wrote: post #7

Jeff has a lot of money. Surely workers rights don't hit the bottom line that hard. Does Jeff not know that everyone will remember him for this behavior?

> Does Jeff not know that everyone will remember him for this behavior? This presupposes that Jeff cares about his legacy. I genuinely don't know what drives him; my best guess is 'making Amazon ever more successful'.

Jeff likely knows that a mogul's legacy is crafted long after the boom years. See Rockefeller, Carnegie, Morgan, Gates, Nobel, etc.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#76

Post by ForHackernews »

motohagiography wrote: post #15

Why would Amazon want to prevent workers from unionizing? Look what it did for teaching, policing, mail delivery, port security, taxi driving, waste management, public service, and construction.

I think you're being sarcastic, but most of those industries pay a living wage to their employees -- or they did until some SV scabs showed up -- unlike Amazon's warehouse workers.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#77

Post by jacobr1 »

saddlerustle wrote: post #38
motohagiography wrote: post #15

Why would Amazon want to prevent workers from unionizing? Look what it did for teaching, policing, mail delivery, port security, taxi driving, waste management, public service, and construction.

The entry level pay at an Amazon warehouse in the US is more than most of that list.

The primary complaints with Amazon though are about working conditions, not pay.

I don't even think it is about ruthless cost-savings, as it is about ruthless efficiency of the system. They are building an automated warehouse/supply-chain, they just happen to be using real-robots for some of it and humans for other parts. They humans are just cogs, with machine dictated instructions. Much of the misery probably isn't even intentionally, but they still are culpable for it. They need more constraints on how humans are used within their system. Just using a minimum rest period (even more gracious ones than state mandates) is not enough, if you presume humans are working at 100% efficiency, constantly moving and doing for the rest of the time. And not to mention that excludes human desires like autonomy. Accounting for that, while not hindering efficacy too much is an interesting systems problem that Amazon's industrial engineers should be spending more time addressing (though I'm sure they already are investing significant effort, just clearly isn't enough).

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#79

Post by mattacular »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #56
mattacular wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would basic income and social safety nets increase labors negotiating power?

It's much easier to quit an abusive boss if you have some income to sustain yourself (UBI). You don't have to put up with the abuse for another month or two until you have a new job offer, etc.

If that were true then how come existing social safety netting in the form of unemployment benefits haven't helped people stuck in this type of situation?

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#80

Post by RobertoG »

dylan604 wrote: post #52
smnrchrds wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you call them goons? Politicians, activists, all sorts of people go door knocking around the time of elections and referendums. What made this interaction so different that you call them goons sent there to intimidate you, not activists trying to attract your vote?

I used quotes because I was quoting my flatmate. She said their demeanor was not welcoming at all, and it felt very aggressive. I kind of wish I was there just so I could have told them what I thought, but spilled milk and what not.

Not saying this is the case, but it occurs to me... that would be a good way to sabotage the start of an union. Just send some aggressive people posing like members of the union.
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