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Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

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Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#71

Post by TYPE_FASTER »

oblio wrote: post #63
criddell wrote: post #3

> We believe that industry consultation is critical for changes to platform policies, as these updates have a far-reaching impact on the developer ecosystem. Why should platform makers consult the advertising industry? It's not like the advertising industry consulted anybody before they started collecting every bit of data they could.

I'm honestly interested about this, Facebook is a big company. Is there no case of FB screwing over its partners? Like locking or limiting an API that they had offered in the past, etc. One thing that comes to mind immediately is that Facebook Messenger used to be accessible through XMPP and then they blocked that.

At one point, I wrote a script to crawl developer documentation at Google, Facebook, and Microsoft, and compare vs. the previous day so we could know ahead of time about breaking API changes.

So yes, it's funny to me that Facebook is calling out Apple for changing their platform when Facebook does it all the time.

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#72

Post by fuzzer37 »

gregorythecat wrote: post #65
Spivak wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that was really the case then why are FB and Google fighting it so hard? Shouldn’t they want this then?

I believe it will still comprise a reduction in their revenue. The internet as a whole will be less profitable, and only the big players will be able to survive. Maybe with time there can be a shift in the economics, but I would not bet on it. I can’t imagine people will start paying for email, search, music streaming...

Or we'll shift back to an internet where people make things because they enjoy making them, not because they're trying to get a million clicks on blog spam. I'd be happy if the internet as a whole was a less profitable place.

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#73

Post by robenkleene »

TACIXAT wrote: post #64
tmpz22 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's ironic given some of the best possible ad blocking on mobile devices is Ublock Origin on Firefox mobile which is only available on Android (Apple only allows third party browsers to wrap Safari on iOS). Its 2020 and the only modicum of privacy you can get is a rooted android device.

That is a good point. I switched from Chrome to Firefox for ublock, and I use Firefox Focus regularly. That will be sad to lose moving to iOS.

Just FYI Firefox Focus is also on iOS. (And it also acts as a third-party content blocker for Mobile Safari, though it’s no uBlock Origin.)

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#74

Post by daralthus »

freeone3000 wrote: post #53
ffpip wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sue Apple for putting privacy first and informing users of clear opt-out choice right below the opt-in?

Yes. Apple is using their monopoly position to harm their business of selling private data of consumers.

They are not competitors. Antitrust law might not apply.

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#75

Post by K0nserv »

gregorythecat wrote: post #48

Given the attitude on HN about iOS14, I don’t think most here grasp the implication of gutting ad attribution. All publishers (news sites, indie games, etc) are going to see huge drops in CPM. It could easily be a business ending shift. Sure removing IDFA will help protect user privacy, but let’s not kid ourselves that there will not be collateral damage. Being a third party publisher will be that much harder and wal…

Apple added SKAdnetwork specifically for the attribution use case, presumably because they foresaw this.

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#76

Post by actuator »

ogre_codes wrote: post #40
avalys wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because many of the people developing apps for their platform rely on advertising revenue to pay the bills?

It's my phone, not the developer's. I should absolutely have the right to disable this kind of tracking on my phone. If the advertisers/ developers want to track people, maybe they should start buying people phones or do what Google did and build an OS and give it away.

TBF, not all Android phones are created equal.

There are Android phones sold in the developing world at low price points where ads appear on home screen, notification bar etc. with tracking deep within OS.

Then, there are phones like Pixel where with recent versions you have control of what is shared and you need to authorize access(single/multiple use) for things like location. Like iOS, not much can be collected unless you give Google/app permission to.

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#77

Post by gregorythecat »

fuzzer37 wrote: post #72
gregorythecat wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it will still comprise a reduction in their revenue. The internet as a whole will be less profitable, and only the big players will be able to survive. Maybe with time there can be a shift in the economics, but I would not bet on it. I can’t imagine people will start paying for email, search, music streaming...

Or we'll shift back to an internet where people make things because they enjoy making them, not because they're trying to get a million clicks on blog spam. I'd be happy if the internet as a whole was a less profitable place.

Don’t assume I’m against that from the perspective of a netizen. I too grew up reading slashdot and idolizing the FSF. I’m just pointing out this well could be the death knell of SWE as we know it.

I will definitely miss the ridiculous TC fueled by the ad-laden web, but at least maybe I won’t work alongside physics and math phds on optimizing clicks....

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#78

Post by criddell »

room500 wrote: post #37
G4E wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't prevent them to show ads. It will prevent them to show targeted ads. So your point is either invalid or rather "they won't be able to be datamining their potentials users to pay the bills" ?

Advertisers are willing to pay way more for targeted ads. If an app is relying on advertising revenue, the inability to target ads will directly cause the app to generate less revenue.

People who buy an Apple device often do so in part because Apple does a better job with privacy. The fact that this makes life harder for advertisers is kind of the point.

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#79

Post by ocdtrekkie »

Spivak wrote: post #56
gregorythecat wrote: post #48

Given the attitude on HN about iOS14, I don’t think most here grasp the implication of gutting ad attribution. All publishers (news sites, indie games, etc) are going to see huge drops in CPM. It could easily be a business ending shift. Sure removing IDFA will help protect user privacy, but let’s not kid ourselves that there will not be collateral damage. Being a third party publisher will be that much harder and wal…

If that was really the case then why are FB and Google fighting it so hard? Shouldn’t they want this then?

The claim regulating the big players will actually hurt the little guys is the common cry of the big player hoping they don't actually end up getting regulated. As your comment points out, it really doesn't hold up to a cursory examination of what's being claimed and how they stand to gain. ;)

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#80

Post by gregorythecat »

K0nserv wrote: post #75
gregorythecat wrote: post #48

Given the attitude on HN about iOS14, I don’t think most here grasp the implication of gutting ad attribution. All publishers (news sites, indie games, etc) are going to see huge drops in CPM. It could easily be a business ending shift. Sure removing IDFA will help protect user privacy, but let’s not kid ourselves that there will not be collateral damage. Being a third party publisher will be that much harder and wal…

Apple added SKAdnetwork specifically for the attribution use case, presumably because they foresaw this.

SKAdNetwork is severely restrictive. In my group we’re still forecasting a major hit to our ability to perform attribution or lift analysis.
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