71–80 of 268 posts
I think getting through that anger and encouraging people to find a positive and affirmative way to express the same sentiment is an extremely difficult task, and really asking a lot of people.
E.g. instead of saying they have to save the environment for the future generation (which perhaps generates a guilty feeling), we want to preserve nature to keep it as it is (which they view as a positive thing, preservation of that which is good), they suddenly gave a lot more money to the cause.
Same here in the Netherlands, conservatives here fight for gay rights. Simply because it is part of our tradition. They also fight with all their might for Black Pete, look it up, because there is the constant blame game being played and they feel that the tradition is attacked. And how much I love the tradition, the current Black Pete has some stereotypes baked in. And am I a nationalist and conservative, a rare breed in my country ^_^
I am curious what happens if there is a positive sound. E.g. tell them to go back to an older tradition, Black Pete as ferocious demon helper of Saint Nikolaas. Would they still oppose change? My guess would be that there is less of an issue then and people will experiment with new image.
Perhaps something to try out locally.
Wait, this is great. It means the guilt trip is very good at entrenching a viewpoint. So if you want to fuck someone over, find something he's doing that's hurting him and guilt trip him till he doubles down. You can do this at the whole society level: for instance, no society that underemploys some large fraction of its populace will effectively compete against an equivalent one with efficient workplace participatio…
You are nerding out, I get it. But sometimes you gotta take off the “nerding out” hat before sharing an idea :)
"The potential of positive self-directed emotions has largely not been embraced by activists. The worry could be that it might make those engaging in the cause appear self-satisfied or selfish. But these studies suggest that, instead of focusing on ‘doom and gloom’ messaging that zooms in on people’s shortcomings and risks alienating them, policymakers and strategists might find that positive messaging, speaking to p…
> I'm not sure they managed to do it with pats on the back.
You will always loose most intellectuals with that amount of paternalism and you are doomed to fail at some point. Not a good strategy at all. Singapore is a benevolent dictatorship and works to some degree, but it still requires participation. And force doesn't work, maybe for a short while, but it actually inhibits values getting entrenched. And it wouldn't work for any demographic, people would just laugh at you and in most cases it is actually deserved.
> having turned symbols of excess into symbols of shame
We did that since Abraham and probably long before.
"you're wrong" - Best way to win over someone you disagree with
I've been trying really hard to replace all my usage of "you're wrong" with "yes and". Another good one I'm trying recently is: "You're right to think that given the information you know, and here's some more information you should consider." Oh and: "That's a great hypothesis, here's another one."
How does it work with e.g.?
A: 2+2=5
B: Yes and....
'yes and' or 'this might be true from your POV, but please consider'
"you're wrong" - Best way to win over someone you disagree with
I've been trying really hard to replace all my usage of "you're wrong" with "yes and". Another good one I'm trying recently is: "You're right to think that given the information you know, and here's some more information you should consider." Oh and: "That's a great hypothesis, here's another one."
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interesting point. Martin Luther King Jr spoke quite a bit about addressing GUILT before he was killed. Unfortunately for all of us, he was incredibly unpopular before his death due to his position on the Vietnam War so his message on guilt is lost to transcripts. QUOTE: "The Negro needs the white man to save him from his fears, the white man needs the Negro to save him from his GUILT. We are tied together in so many…
And I must say, though this thought is controversial. If you are a white man born in America, feeling guilt is what you’re supposed to feel, as a human being. Not personal guilt, as few even living today are directly responsible for the systems that came before. But guilt from being born into privilege in a society built entirely to benefit you, from the net worth of your parents, to the quiet mono-racial neighborhoo…
I agree that framing issues in a way that allows people to avoid feeling like they have done something wrong is more effective. I also think most activists are aware of this. I also think that crafting positive, uplifting messages requires a certain level of societal support. Hard to know what one could buy to stop police brutality right now, for instance. I suspect people will come up with things. When I see a prote…
> I also think most activists are aware of this. I'm sorry, but how did you come to this conclusion? The first thing that comes to mind is the new tactic used by activist, saying something to the effect of "If you are not doing something to prevent racism, then you are guilty of being racist." Which is what (I believe) lead to this thing: https://www.businessinsider.com/white-protesters-confront-di...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interesting point. Martin Luther King Jr spoke quite a bit about addressing GUILT before he was killed. Unfortunately for all of us, he was incredibly unpopular before his death due to his position on the Vietnam War so his message on guilt is lost to transcripts. QUOTE: "The Negro needs the white man to save him from his fears, the white man needs the Negro to save him from his GUILT. We are tied together in so many…
And I must say, though this thought is controversial. If you are a white man born in America, feeling guilt is what you’re supposed to feel, as a human being. Not personal guilt, as few even living today are directly responsible for the systems that came before. But guilt from being born into privilege in a society built entirely to benefit you, from the net worth of your parents, to the quiet mono-racial neighborhoo…
Guilt is a negative emotion, and in my opinion you shouldn't have to do penance for things you have no control over. Instead, you can use your position of privilege to do good in whatever way fits.
My small contribution, I run an online community (~1000 members in our Discord server) with a zero tolerance policy on racism, racist / sexist / orientation stereotypes, etc. It's ran and frequented by a highly diverse range of people from all over the world. It's not much, but I know I'm not contributing to the problem and I like to think my community is making the world a better place.