Harvard's 1899 Entrance Exam [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Harvard's 1899 Entrance Exam [pdf]

#71

Post by sambeau » Sat, Apr 09, 2011, 3:27 PM UTC

sambeau wrote: post #68

Goladus wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know whether this is an entrance exam and that would definitely change things. But either way, according to Wikipedia, dueling was a part of British culture though the early 1800s, the last fatal duel was in 1856. Meaning a typical candidate from an elite family in 1899 will have a living relative who has probably at least read public discourse about dueling, and there's a good chance the subject has come up…

Scotland's last-ever duel with swords was fought in the same year: 1899. "Swords were drawn and blood was spilled over the election battle of the University Rector." It was in a semi-public place (the Glasgow University Union building) and may have been reported at the time. Thus, duelling may have been in the news at the time. http://www.theguu.com/about/history/

In a bold attempt to prove myself wrong I offer this other link that suggests that the story (well-known to alumni of Glasgow University, such as myself) may have been a fictional, satirical sketch written for the student magazine.

"It found no other mention of the event in contemporary university records, newspapers or court summaries."

http://news.scotsman.com/education/Hit-and-myth-Was-Scotland...

Re: Harvard's 1899 Entrance Exam [pdf]

#72

Post by mberning » Sat, Apr 09, 2011, 3:34 PM UTC

Tuition was probably also around $100 back then. My how we've 'progressed'.

Re: Harvard's 1899 Entrance Exam [pdf]

#73

Post by mattdeboard » Sat, Apr 09, 2011, 3:35 PM UTC

brettnak wrote: post #25

yequalsx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I teach mathematics at a community college and I can tell you that for most people the mathematics on the test is hard. Our course with the largest number of students is on arithmetic and the students just don't comprehend fractions. They can't even comprehend how to convert a decimal to a percent. Especially when given a problem like: Conver 0.25% to a decimal. That really throws them off.

While I understand this question, I think it is a bit of a trick. I think it would make more sense to ask them to convert 1.25% to a decimal, or any percentage that did not have leading zeros.

It's not a trick. It requires critical thinking skills, and that a student internalizes concepts like percentages, decimals and fractions.

Re: Harvard's 1899 Entrance Exam [pdf]

#74

Post by mattdeboard » Sat, Apr 09, 2011, 3:38 PM UTC

watchandwait wrote: post #59

yequalsx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I teach mathematics at a community college and I can tell you that for most people the mathematics on the test is hard. Our course with the largest number of students is on arithmetic and the students just don't comprehend fractions. They can't even comprehend how to convert a decimal to a percent. Especially when given a problem like: Conver 0.25% to a decimal. That really throws them off.

I've heard from folks in retail finance that large segments of American society do not understand the concept of an interest rate. Everything is just "what is my monthly payment?"

I talked to a fellow CS major Thursday evening and he said he hated all the math involved with the CS program, and that he' failed Pre-Calculus & Trigonometry I three times. This came out after he was complaining about his discrete computational structures class being "nothing but proofs".

If you don't like the math, why get a CS degree? Get a physical science degree and learn how to code on your own time.

Re: Harvard's 1899 Entrance Exam [pdf]

#75

Post by robflynn » Sat, Apr 09, 2011, 3:55 PM UTC

noonespecial wrote: post #56

ddol wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fascinating to think that in 1869 there were Transatlantic telegraph links. One could have sat this entrance exam in London while it was being sat in MA simultaneously, with Questions/Answers transmitted digitally.

First contact was made in 1858, but the cable failed in mere days. The first reliable link happened in 1866. It ran about half "telegraph speed", which was pretty darn slow. I'd hate to connect to that bbs. It's a fascinating read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_telegraph_cable

Slow, but amazing at the same time. I love thinking about things like this.

I remember someone calling my old BBS, back in the early 90s, with a TDD to see what would happen. That explained why I had been seeing 300bps callers when I was used to seeing 1200bps-2400bps.

I recall one holiday starting the download of a picture of a bear. I then went and had Thanksgiving dinner with my family for about two hours. I arrived home just in time for the picture to finish downloading. :P

Re: Harvard's 1899 Entrance Exam [pdf]

#76

Post by joeycfan » Sat, Apr 09, 2011, 4:17 PM UTC

schrototo wrote: post #8

Like all tests, it's not hard if you know the stuff that's asked. If you've studied ancient greek in school, that part of the test is probably as easy for you as the algebra part must seem to anyone who went to school in the past couple of decades (it looks about as hard as math homework from when I was 15 or so). edit: It's interesting. I do have a certain romantic attachment to this kind of classic humanist educati…

The Learning Curve of Sisyphus never ends....

Re: Harvard's 1899 Entrance Exam [pdf]

#77

Post by joeycfan » Sat, Apr 09, 2011, 4:21 PM UTC

mjs wrote: post #20

I found some Cambridge exam papers from 1899 a while back. I don't have scans, but there's a few of the more interesting/mysterious questions at: http://beebo.org/lately/2001-07-10_cambridge.html I quite like the 2.5 hour "English Essay" for bizarreness: Write an English Essay on one of the following subjects: 1. English country life in the 18th century. 2. The battle of Blenheim. 3. The character of Rachel Lady Cast…

'So, you disapprove of my English country life in the 18th century? Honour must be satisfied!' said Rachel Lady Castlewood.

They met on the grounds of The battle of Blenheim for the duel.

A shot rang out! A figure fell!

The end. Am I in?

Also - a very good short story involving duelling is at

http://miraclejones.blogspot.com/

This guy is a hella writter.

Re: Harvard's 1899 Entrance Exam [pdf]

#78

Post by yequalsx » Sat, Apr 09, 2011, 4:30 PM UTC

watchandwait wrote: post #59

yequalsx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I teach mathematics at a community college and I can tell you that for most people the mathematics on the test is hard. Our course with the largest number of students is on arithmetic and the students just don't comprehend fractions. They can't even comprehend how to convert a decimal to a percent. Especially when given a problem like: Conver 0.25% to a decimal. That really throws them off.

I've heard from folks in retail finance that large segments of American society do not understand the concept of an interest rate. Everything is just "what is my monthly payment?"

After a lecture and doing several examples I a majority of my college algebra students couldn't do this problem.

You have a house that you bought for $120,000. You sell the house for $173,000 and the real estate commission is 6%. As the seller of the house you have to pay the real estate commission. The real estate commission is an expense and is not counted as part of your profit from the sale of the house. You have to pay a tax of 30% on the profit from the sale of the house. How much tax is paid?

They just couldn't grasp that the real estate commission was not part of their profit. I got the impression that the students believe that the real estate commission is not an expense.

I do believe that a large percentage of society does not understand interest.

Re: Harvard's 1899 Entrance Exam [pdf]

#79

Post by Dn_Ab » Sat, Apr 09, 2011, 5:32 PM UTC

mberning wrote: post #72

Tuition was probably also around $100 back then. My how we've 'progressed'.

According to [1] tuition was $150 in 1900. According to [2] average annual wage was $450. Assuming women in the work place was a lot less common I will bump it to $500. So about 30% of household income? Harvard costs $34,976 in 2010. According to [3] median household income in 2009? is $49,777. So 70% of median income.

Prices as a percentage of average income has certainly gotten steeper but you cannot argue that things now are less open than they used to be. There are more women and minorities and scholarship opportunities for different groups. Certainly things could be a lot better but progress has surely been made. You can't throw a number like $100 without context.

[1] http://kwharbaugh.blogspot.com/2005/02/educational-costs.htm...

[2] http://usa.usembassy.de/etexts/his/e_prices1.htm

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

Re: Harvard's 1899 Entrance Exam [pdf]

#80

Post by bialecki » Sat, Apr 09, 2011, 5:42 PM UTC

This is really interesting especially given that Harvard now offers "Counting People" and "Magic of Numbers" as classes that satisfy the math (quantitative reasoning) requirement. That's not to say the requirements are better or worse than 100 years ago, it's just interesting how much broader the course offerings are now. You could avoid math, and I know people who did, if you didn't want to take it. And of course, almost no one knows Latin or Greek.