Live data from Hacker News

The Kush civilization flourished in Sudan nearly 5K years ago

smithsonianmag.com

71–80 of 145 posts

Re: The Kush civilization flourished in Sudan nearly 5K years ago

#71

"Be, be-fore we came to this country We were kings and queens, never porch monkeys There was empires in Africa called Kush Timbuktu, where every race came to get books To learn from black teachers who taught Greeks and Romans Asian Arabs and gave them gold, when Gold was converted to money it all changed Money then became empowerment for Europeans The Persian military invaded They heard about the gold, the teachings,…

"Egypt was the place that Alexander the Great went

He was so shocked at the mountains with black faces

Shot up they nose to impose..."

Is that a reference to the Great Sphinx of Giza?

If so... it doesn't appear that Alexander the Great had anything to do with it.

Am I missing something?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Sphinx_of_Giza#Missing_n...

Edit: attempting to format the quote

Re: The Kush civilization flourished in Sudan nearly 5K years ago

#72
post #11

I think it's fair to say that Kush has never been 'forgotten'--in fact, it's been heavily researched, documented, debated. This article title is a bit clickbait-y, and hinges on the current fad of 'Europeans are all racists and didn't acknowledge/appreciate a Black civilization', which is of course wrong.

"all" ...

Is that your fad?

You sound entirely stupid for this type of a subject.

Edit: unsuitable might be the better word for stupid in this case, but I'll let both stand.

Re: The Kush civilization flourished in Sudan nearly 5K years ago

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean they literally invented race to enslave entire groups of people. And it's hardly like Europe stopped interfering or exploiting even with the 21st century.

This is such an intellectually impoverished notion of racism. It's mired in 20th-century theory goo. You can rest assured that racist reasoning ran rampant throughout world history long before someone coined the word "race" or before 18th/19th century political narratives used it in whatever particular ways.

In a child comment you make the case that racism is when some group holds "tribal/identitarian" notions about an "other" group and attributes essential characteristics to them. You say this has existed throughout history and did not begin in modernity.

Ok.

That doesn't actually disagree with the "20th-century theory goo" though. The goo says that colonizing European empires created "new discourses" about race that served an ideological function in their empire-building. That's a far cry from "those people over the mountains there are barbarous."

The notions of "whiteness" and "blackness," as they still function today (against increasingly strong currents of critique) are clearly something different from that. In pre-modern times, a Viking and a Frank wouldn't have seen themselves as having anything in common. But now (anachronistically) they're commonly "white."

It seems like the confusion here--and I see it repeated all over the place--comes from a failure to clarify terms like "race" and "racism."

There's "racism" in the sense of a prejudice against some other-group that we can identify because they look or act different, and they live over there and we live over here. That has probably been around as long as different kinds of people have been encountering each other.

And then there's "racism," the ideological function where European empires constructed whole new ideas about groups of people that previously would not have seen themselves as having anything in common, in the service of expansion, extraction, domination, slavery, etc.

If you think that's all goo, that's fine, but you need to provide a stronger counter-argument. None of the purveyors of the 20th-century goo actually believe that no one hated other-groups before modernity.

Re: The Kush civilization flourished in Sudan nearly 5K years ago

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's probably fair to say that it's been ignored by the general public, but then so have most really old civilisations; in the popular imagination, there was nothing except Greece, Rome and Egypt until this side of 1 AD. > hinges on the current fad of 'Europeans are all racists and didn't appreciate a Black civilization', which is of course wrong. ... eh, until last century it was fashionable to attribute it to…

> in the popular imagination, there was nothing except Greece, Rome and Egypt until this side of 1 AD. Really? The Romans are known for their expansionism. Who were they conquering? Who was everybody fighting against in 300 ?

If we're really talking about Western popular imagination, 1-4 generations ago, I have to think it was dominated by what's in the Bible.

Re: The Kush civilization flourished in Sudan nearly 5K years ago

#75

It's pretty common for archeology to be scanty when a civilization doesn't leave behind any writings to study. If you want to be remembered you gotta write stuff down, and do so in a way that survives the ages. It also helps to be closer to the modern era. Complaints that the Greek and Roman empires are better known seem a bit silly when you consider that they were in their peak closer to the present day than they we…

Kushites did have writing though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meroitic_script.

Re: The Kush civilization flourished in Sudan nearly 5K years ago

#76
> The land south of Egypt, beyond the first cataract of the Nile, was known to the ancient world by many names: Ta-Seti, or Land of the Bow, so named because the inhabitants were expert archers; Ta-Nehesi, or Land of Copper;

Oh, is that what Ta-Nehesi Coates is named after? I decided to look, and apparently his name is slightly different, Ta-Nehisi. What's weird just just how often he's miscredited with the wrong name in articles online, whether they be blogs or new agencies (those might be alternate spelling tagging) or book clubs.

As I myself have an uncommon spelling of a fairly common name (with no common variations), I can only imagine how annoying this must be. It's probably self propagating at this point, since anyone that searches for it with the wrong name will find plenty of (wrong) evidence that they guessed right, depending on where their eyes land on the page.

Re: The Kush civilization flourished in Sudan nearly 5K years ago

#78

"Kushi" is still a current slur against black people in Israel and other Hebrew-speaking areas.[1] It's a bit like calling someone a "chinaman." Also, some people point out the sound similarity of קוֹף (monkey) and כושי (Kushite). [1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/chief-rabbi-compares-african-a...

I wouldn't say this is accurate. Well, some might use it that way, but as a kid this is the word we were taught for black folk with no harm intended, it's also the name used in the bible--I believe it's originally from the bible.

Re: The Kush civilization flourished in Sudan nearly 5K years ago

#79
post #76

> The land south of Egypt, beyond the first cataract of the Nile, was known to the ancient world by many names: Ta-Seti, or Land of the Bow, so named because the inhabitants were expert archers; Ta-Nehesi, or Land of Copper; Oh, is that what Ta-Nehesi Coates is named after? I decided to look, and apparently his name is slightly different, Ta-Nehisi. What's weird just just how often he's miscredited with the wrong nam…

Note that Ta-Nehisi Coates insists on the pronunciation "Ta-Nehasi Coates."

Re: The Kush civilization flourished in Sudan nearly 5K years ago

#80
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the popular imagination? The Romans were conquering barbaric tribes that aren't worth talking about in detail, I think. Certainly not civilizations. The actual details of those civilizations seem to be as niche and obscure as knowledge of the Kush.

> In the popular imagination? The Romans were conquering barbaric tribes that aren't worth talking about in detail, I think. There was plenty of interaction, but the thing about those insignificant barbaric tribes is that they aren't worth conquering either.

And there's a simple rule that's obvious even in a superficial read of de bello gallico: don't cultivate wheat and the legions won't bother you.
Post reply on HN