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Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

theregister.com

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Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#71

Post by stefan_ »

renewiltord wrote: post #45
tedunangst wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I should rephrase. What language makes it impossible to call abort() after a required XML element is found to be missing?

Presumably languages which default to optional instead of null with the default ergonomics being to “or_else” instead of “unwrap” will encourage safer error handling. It works for me, but I don’t know if it is yet well known what the effect of developer UX on error rate is.

Nope, you are still not making sense. Just look at the "Facebook remotely disables all apps" issue. Both times it was issues deserializing - the deserialization wasn't unsafe or outright crashing, it was simply the SDK wasn't prepared to deal with the data it got.

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#72

Post by amiga-workbench »

untog wrote: post #68
RandomBacon wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vote with your wallet. Don't buy these internet devices. All it takes is for a visiting family member or friend who wants to watch Netflix while you're in another room/asleep/etc to click okay.

Easier said than done. It’s increasingly difficult to find a “dumb” TV these days. Almost all have smart functionality. (and besides, most TVs have other ways of watching Netflix that ought to be more convenient for a visitor. A $30 Roku stick is all you need)

Don't buy a TV then, buy a monitor. https://www.dell.com/en-uk/work/shop/dell-55-4k-conference-r...

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#73

Post by philistine »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #34
tpmx wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do name and shame.

I don’t know of any off the top of my head, but I have seen them. Besides that though, firmware updates require an internet connection, and those updates contain keys for newer AACS versions. So if you want to play a just-released movie, you may need a player capable of AACS 72 (or whatever it’s at now), but yours may only support AACS 52 (out of the box). MakeMKV does require an update for each new AACS version.

I have a TCL tv that has the Roku firmware on it. I have never connected it to the internet, but I made sure I could update it without the internet. When I shopped for a tv, I was adamant I needed a tv I could update via USB, and Roku’s firmware allows it.

All is not lost.

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#74

Post by RandomBacon »

amiga-workbench wrote: post #72
untog wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easier said than done. It’s increasingly difficult to find a “dumb” TV these days. Almost all have smart functionality. (and besides, most TVs have other ways of watching Netflix that ought to be more convenient for a visitor. A $30 Roku stick is all you need)

Don't buy a TV then, buy a monitor. https://www.dell.com/en-uk/work/shop/dell-55-4k-conference-r...

In the US, you can get a 55 inch dumb 4K TV for less than half the price.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Sceptre-55-Class-4K-UHD-LED-TV-HD...

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#75

Post by ptx »

bgwhn wrote: post #61
userbinator wrote: post #54

One thing you have to understand is that these internet-connected Blu-ray players in question are programmed to log their activities and send copies of this information to Samsung. In some ways, this is even more disturbing than the bricking. Only corporate greed can create a media player that watches you and needs constant firmware updates. I have a VCR and DVD player which still work, and things like this are the r…

I'm with you, and I prefer "dumb" devices, but you can still buy these blu-ray players and not connect them to the internet. The internet connectivity is sold as an additional feature so that you can use your blu-ray player to watch Netflix. I agree that I don't want logging on a device like this, but if I was going to connect one of these to the internet, I would at least want regular security updates.

If it's developed with the assumption that they can deliver rolling software updates, the software it ships with might be unusably buggy.

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#76

Post by spike021 »

userbinator wrote: post #54

One thing you have to understand is that these internet-connected Blu-ray players in question are programmed to log their activities and send copies of this information to Samsung. In some ways, this is even more disturbing than the bricking. Only corporate greed can create a media player that watches you and needs constant firmware updates. I have a VCR and DVD player which still work, and things like this are the r…

There are still "dumb" Blu-ray players. Bought one for my parents a few years back. It does have an ethernet port, but they've never needed to connect it to the Internet, works fine. I guess if you're watching a movie that has Internet-enabled extra features, then you would need an internet-connected one, but are there really that many anyway?

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#77

Post by phildenhoff »

gruez wrote: post #39
toast0 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does it revert the firmware to whatever it was shipped with (bugs and all)? Some vendors do, but most vendors do not. I think that's the only reasonable thing to do. Have the original firmware either as an actual rom, or only writable with an enable jumper flipped; use a power on key sequence to boot from the original firmware, copy to normal firmware and reboot into normal firmware (which is now the original firmw…

>I think that's the only reasonable thing to do. But that'd also mean you need double the flash capacity, which drives up the BOM cost.

Not necessarily. I worked on the team the managed the OS for an embedded hardware project (radio equipment) and our disk was partitioned four ways:

1. current operating system

2. previous operating system (and next, on upgrade)

3. data partition, shared across both current and previous OS

4. factory reset partition

That means if we needed to do a factory reset we could just load the firmware archive from the fourth partition onto the second partition and execute a normal upgrade, albeit to an older version. Since upgrade packages were small, maybe 500MB?, we could easily cut a little space from the rest of the partitions to make it fit without having to increase the flash capacity.

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#78

Post by Ambroos »

Symbiote wrote: post #48
tpmx wrote: post #21

I think the best approach is to never, ever connect a device like a TV, Blu-ray player, etc to the internet. That's the only way they'll survive. So far no HDMI-based attacks. Hotglue the ethernet port?

At least TVs on the (originally) European DVB broadcast system can pick up firmware from broadcasts. Packets in the transport stream include the necessary firmware.

This is still used for set-top boxes, at least in Belgium. It happens in the background now, but up until a few years ago when you first got one you'd only see the firmware downloader for an hour or two, with this block diagram where you could follow along: https://i.imgur.com/hh7eWZr.jpg

The worst part about that was if your signal quality wasn't great. You'd see blocks fail, and it'd take ages for them to come up again.

The boxes now ship with usable firmware preloaded, and will update in the background in the first few days usually.

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#79

Post by dastx »

userbinator wrote: post #54

One thing you have to understand is that these internet-connected Blu-ray players in question are programmed to log their activities and send copies of this information to Samsung. In some ways, this is even more disturbing than the bricking. Only corporate greed can create a media player that watches you and needs constant firmware updates. I have a VCR and DVD player which still work, and things like this are the r…

> needs constant firmware updates

Firmware updates are good. They can patch security issues and they can improve different aspects of the device. The security being the best plus obviously.

Wholeheartedly agree that there is no reason for a company like Samsung to track your every move despite you paying them hundreds for said devive. I'd be very surprised if they don't make a hefty profit from such devices. So why then, do they need to track us in addition to making us fork over our money.

I understand Google tracking us. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. Same with Facebook. But Samsung? Apple? No. They're even going to certain lengths to prevent you from fully enjoying your devices (such locked bootloader, making it hard to repair etc).

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#80

Post by PhantomGremlin »

Symbiote wrote: post #48
tpmx wrote: post #21

I think the best approach is to never, ever connect a device like a TV, Blu-ray player, etc to the internet. That's the only way they'll survive. So far no HDMI-based attacks. Hotglue the ethernet port?

At least TVs on the (originally) European DVB broadcast system can pick up firmware from broadcasts. Packets in the transport stream include the necessary firmware.

Don't know if they still do it in the USA, but about a decade ago Sony XBR TVs were able to OTA update from local PBS stations.

I don't know how useful that was. Most people hook up TVs to cable boxes.

I never hooked up my Sony to an antenna for exactly that reason. There were reports of people being unsatisfied with firmware updates. E.g. the motion interpolation algorithm changed.

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