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How Pulse Oximeters Work (2015)

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Re: How Pulse Oximeters Work (2015)

#71
post #64
post #3

Went to a party last weekend where the host used a pulse oximeter (and thermometer) on everyone. Blood O2 level is apparently a leading indicator of COVID-19. Pretty cool stuff. The inner workings of it are actually quite simple as well, pretty amazing that it works as well as it does.

It’s probably a leading indicator of COVID pneumonia but that probably still takes some days to develop during which time infected people are still contagious. Probably better to stay home or at least wear a mask...

> It’s probably a leading indicator of COVID pneumonia

This is incorrect. In some cases, COVID-19 causes blood O2 levels to drop, even while being otherwise asymptomatic. See: https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/hcp/puls...

Re: How Pulse Oximeters Work (2015)

#72
The problem with pulse oximeters is the people who need them often can't use them. Yes I know it's not meant as a medical device.

My dad has COPD and IPF but he can't use the SPO2 meter on the Samsung phone I gave him (and Samsung disabled the SPO2 function for Canada). A Garmin VivoSmart 4 can't give a decent reading on him or me and it takes forever. Part of the problem is blood flow dad's fingers are ice cold due to his condition.

My dad uses a cheap oximeter from Walmart it works better than anything else. It's the type that clips over a finger it's fast and seems to be accurate. I'd like to get a wristband or watch that has a good SPO2 meter but nothing seems to exist.

Re: How Pulse Oximeters Work (2015)

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, Fitbit has products on the market that has them. Works both on iOS and Android. https://www.wearable-technologies.com/2020/01/fitbit-adds-bl...

Garmin also has them on several devices: https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=SK2Y9a9aBp5D6n4sXmPBG7

Garmin seems to be highly inaccurate at measuring oxygen and the devices take a very long time compared to a finger oximeter. I get 93% but a cheap Walmart finger oximeter shows me at 99%.

Re: How Pulse Oximeters Work (2015)

#76
post #53

Does anyone know the degradation in blood oxygen levels under moderate exercise for a person who is fairly health (not athlete but slim, does regular exercise)? I had covid, so bought one of these, and I'm now building my way back to being able to jog, after months of shortness of breath. I would like to be able to understand what level my blood oxygen %, for a normal, healthy person, would drop to when say jogging.

If I really push during my 5k run, pulse oxymeter shows around 85%. Not sure how much to trust it, as soon as I stop it climbs back up. Unclear if it's due to vibrations, or my lungs catching up.

Mine starts beeping at 93% (if I hold my breath for as long as I can it drops to around 92%). My level does rebound again after a few seconds. 85%, sounds a bit low, not totally incredulous though.

Re: How Pulse Oximeters Work (2015)

#77

Does anyone know the degradation in blood oxygen levels under moderate exercise for a person who is fairly health (not athlete but slim, does regular exercise)? I had covid, so bought one of these, and I'm now building my way back to being able to jog, after months of shortness of breath. I would like to be able to understand what level my blood oxygen %, for a normal, healthy person, would drop to when say jogging.

Mine doesn’t drop much during exercise.

Define much, please. I believe getting near 90% at rest means it's time to think about an ER visit.

Re: How Pulse Oximeters Work (2015)

#78
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pulse oximeters are not all that simple. The general idea is easy enough to get across and it's possible to build a fairly simple one that will work some of the time. But the top end, highly reliable ones that work well at low sats are pretty complicated things.

Interesting. You're probably not the right person to ask about this sort of thing and I should probably stick with a doctor's opinion, but you may have a better intuition than I do about the reliability of these things' readings. Suppose I use a pulse oximeter and I get readings of 90%, 91%, 92%, and 99%, all taken ~one minute apart. Is it most likely that I am fine and there were some issues either with the hardware…

Former research engineer (intern) at a pulse oximiter company.

This was about 18 years ago, so the details are shaky.

Yes, this is likely the probe calibrating itself. Recall that the SpO2 is based on the ratio of two measurements. From TFA, you can see that the absorption in the IR is pretty flat, so the IR LEDs don't need to be known with much accuracy - and the IR LEDs you buy are also generally in narrow tolerances because of the telecom industry using them for fiber too. But on the Red side you have a steep slope for one of the spectra, that means that you need to have a better understanding of the wavelength of red LED you're using.

But you know where you get red LEDs? Cheaply? From traffic light manufacturers. In bulk. Apparently it's much cheaper to buy LEDs in huge quantities and pay in intern to develop a measurement device to test every single LED to determine the wavelength. (And probably sell the rest back into the traffic light supply chain.)

Even after that, the red LEDs wavelength was very dependent on temperature (your finger warms it up, for example) and even the current coming in from the probe.

I never worked on the FDA approved code, but there was a bunch of pre-processing put into the sensor to determine the red LED wavelength and make calibration changes before the signal got downstream to the main instrument.

I'm sure any pulse oximiter you buy off of Amazon doesn't go through the calibration that the FDA approved ones do.

Fun fact. As an intern when you're poor, it sounds like a good idea to do calibration studies: they put pulse oximiters on every finger and your earlobes and then have a nurse administer air to you and slowly bring your SpO2 down to 70% while watching the response of the sensors. Talk about light headed! And then they take the mask off and you pop back up to about 95% (our office was a 5000 feet, not sea level) in a minute or two. Fun and you get a $50 gift certificate.

Re: How Pulse Oximeters Work (2015)

#79
post #22

Does anybody have any suggestions for how to check whether a pulse oximeter actually works properly? I bought one online from a not particularly trustworthy shop. I have never seen it show any value other than 99%. How can I figure out whether it actually does anything and doesn't just show 99% no matter what?

I purchased a relatively cheap one from Amazon a couple of months ago. Less than $50, I believe. I tried some simple stuff when it arrived. I believe I was able to get it to swing within the 94-99% range by holding my breath and by deliberate, deep breathing, over the span of just a minute or two. It definitely was not pegged at 99%. The changes were surprisingly fast. My wife was able to get the same response. If it…

1) don't know how much I trust the stuff from Amazon - see my earlier comment above about working at a pulse oximiter company and all the calibration tests we did.

2) while being an intern and sitting alone in my cube, I had dozen of test meters just sitting there and when I got bored I'd do the same thing and try to get it as low as I could by holding my breath and then snap back up. Our office is at 5000 feet so 95% is normal for healthy folks, I could get down to 85 or so and then hyperventilate back to 97% or so pretty quickly.

Re: How Pulse Oximeters Work (2015)

#80

Does anybody have any suggestions for how to check whether a pulse oximeter actually works properly? I bought one online from a not particularly trustworthy shop. I have never seen it show any value other than 99%. How can I figure out whether it actually does anything and doesn't just show 99% no matter what?

Held my breath till I nearly passed out. Watched the indicator tick down. You'll start seeing stars and the meter should be matching you. It is hard to do so normally so I forced the air out and then pinched my nose shut with my fingers to prevent accidentally breathing in.

Holding your breath until you really want to gasp in will surely see the level drop, certainly before you start to go dizzy.
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