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Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

nationalgeographic.com

71–80 of 136 posts

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#71

This movement is really dumb. Plastic pollution in the ocean is a problem, but it’s not the western countries causing it. There are 10 rivers that cause 90% of plastic pollution, and they are in Africa and Asia. Plastic in a landfill harms nobody. The worst part is that people somehow have this linked in thier mind with climate change, as in fixing plastic pollution is going to help with that. Well if anything, it’s…

Yes, it's a spell of idiotic faith that's somehow been cast over people. I've tried asking proponents of recycling about about this and the only answers I've managed to squeeze out of them are:

1) Landfills leach toxic chemicals into the water table.

2) Landfills are on scarce land which will run out oneday, making waste disposal more expensive.

3) It can be inconvenient to build over a landfill because you might hit a bale of plastic when drilling holes for your piles.

4) Plastic bags can blow away from landfills and end up in the sea.

5) Landfills may eventually erode into the sea.

1) Isn't true of all plastics or all landfills but nobody wants to encourage the use of the harmless ones. 2) and 3) are such small problems, it doesn't make sense for the whole world to pay whatever it costs to slow them (not even stop them). We'll never run out of land, just prime land in existing cities which is already mostly "lost" to development anyway. 4) is easily solved or a non-problem and probably even worse for recycling. 5) is just a response to a recent news event.

Nobody wants to consider if recycling or banning products costs more than the purely financial future landfill cost problem. I've tried asking someone about the relative costs when they gave me reason 2) and they just responded by saying that their conscience feels better knowing they're doing what's right.

Some of their ideas to solve it cause increased greenhouse gas emissions, like you mentioned with the energy cost. Many people even want to burn it!

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#72
post #66

This movement is really dumb. Plastic pollution in the ocean is a problem, but it’s not the western countries causing it. There are 10 rivers that cause 90% of plastic pollution, and they are in Africa and Asia. Plastic in a landfill harms nobody. The worst part is that people somehow have this linked in thier mind with climate change, as in fixing plastic pollution is going to help with that. Well if anything, it’s…

Those polluting countries are making stuff that the West consumes, so if we want to stop them polluting we just have to stop buying all this stuff that requires pollution to make. So it is absolutely within our gift to put an end to it.

No. It's consumer products like food packaging. Not industrial waste from producing export goods.

Unless you're saying you want to economically cripple them so they stop being able to afford packaged food or just die out entirely?

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#73
post #43
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I see in California with the bag ban. People use multi use bags once, resulting in a net increase in plastic use. This is a hard problem. A ban will not fix it and may have perverse effects like increasing usage and pollution. What is so damn bad about paper? Paper is mostly renewable (or can be) and is very biodegradable. Why not just make better paper bags

they're not waterproof (or at least, lose structural integrity when wet), and they have worse climate impact than plastic bags.

Yes climate impact via co2 load is important. But persistent environmental pollutants is also important. That's the essential problem of plastic.

The ideal is a closed carbon loop, and the primary blocker here is the continued use of oil, coal, and gas.

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#74
post #54
post #32

Can we all agree that plastic packaging has gotten ridiculous? If I buy toys for my kids they're 90% packaging, 10% toy... It's baffling. Who's the consumer demanding this?

I have a family member who works for IKEA and one reason that small objects need lots of big packaging is because of theft, simple as that. It wastes space for them, adds costs, and so on but the reduction in thefts are so big that it's worth it.

That, and the packaging helps prevent shipping damage.

Those who have ordered something fragile and received it broken because it was underpackaged so much as to be nearly naked will know what I mean.

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#75
post #66

This movement is really dumb. Plastic pollution in the ocean is a problem, but it’s not the western countries causing it. There are 10 rivers that cause 90% of plastic pollution, and they are in Africa and Asia. Plastic in a landfill harms nobody. The worst part is that people somehow have this linked in thier mind with climate change, as in fixing plastic pollution is going to help with that. Well if anything, it’s…

Those polluting countries are making stuff that the West consumes, so if we want to stop them polluting we just have to stop buying all this stuff that requires pollution to make. So it is absolutely within our gift to put an end to it.

Go to Asian and see how much plastic is domestically used. It’s far more pervasive (in my experience) than the west. Everything goes into a plastic bag.

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#76
post #29

I remember reading somewhere that some bottled product replaced plastic with glass, which weighs more, which led to an increase in trucks required, which led to more of a carbon footprint, which is also bad.

This is why a carbon tax makes a lot of sense. Increase the cost of doing the wrong thing and let the market decide.

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#77

Aren't there many legitimate uses of single-use plastics? Like medical products? What will Canada replace them with?

I suspect there will be exemptions. But it is really amazing how much there is left over from medical waste.

But most people actively receive health care infrequently, compared to a daily or weekly cadence for consuming groceries or coffee or whatever. As a fraction of the plastic waste that a typical person generates, how much is medical?

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#78

This movement is really dumb. Plastic pollution in the ocean is a problem, but it’s not the western countries causing it. There are 10 rivers that cause 90% of plastic pollution, and they are in Africa and Asia. Plastic in a landfill harms nobody. The worst part is that people somehow have this linked in thier mind with climate change, as in fixing plastic pollution is going to help with that. Well if anything, it’s…

It is not dumb. It is about setting an example. We cannot fix everything everywhere, but we can move the needle. Maybe a youth living near one of those 10 rivers, reading about Canada doing it, will become a member of parliament or a minister and will do something about it. Or not. Maybe here in Canada out of necessity we come up with smart solutions to replaces single use plastics that can be copied all over the wor…

Are you sure there isn't a cheaper way to get the same effect? Doing a giant useless action just to set an example to others for whom it's not so useless doesn't seem like the obvious first choice.

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#79

Aren't there many legitimate uses of single-use plastics? Like medical products? What will Canada replace them with?

I suspect there will be exemptions. But it is really amazing how much there is left over from medical waste.

I had a post-surgical “thing” (details spared for the squeamish) early in the year that took a daily use of supplies for a few months. Decades of recycling, bicycle commuting, and EV ownership seemed wiped away by the shear amount of waste generated each and every day. And I had time to come up with alternatives as I laid there with my restricted activity, and came up with no alternatives. I mean, can you even get corn starch alternatives sterile without watching them melt? :-)

So, yeah, I’m confident medical stuff will be on the exception list. At the same time, I know of folks that need continuing supplies for their care, such as wound care, but know none personally. Even my thing eventually ended.

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#80
post #70
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they're not waterproof (or at least, lose structural integrity when wet), and they have worse climate impact than plastic bags.

How do they have worse impact? I thought they're made of renewable lumber and compost better than plastic?

The numbers: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

>I thought they're made of renewable lumber and compost better than plastic?

All of which is irrelevant to climate impact. Taking oil out of the ground, turning it into plastic bags, then burying it is carbon neutral, if we ignore the energy required for processing. This is fair because it also takes energy to process pulp to make paper bags. Composting actually causes co2 to be released, so that's actually counterproductive.

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