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U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#71

Post by HenryBemis »

lightgreen wrote: post #65
HenryBemis wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA has a track record of issuing a request for info (if not other shadier methods) tied with a gag order. So... and if the Snowden/Wikileaks/ATT room 641A has taught us anything (combined with the 5-9-14 eyes), is that we cannot trust any government when it has enough power to spy on its people. IT DOES. Major difference between USA, UK, France, Spain, Sweden etc. Vs Russia, Iran, China, Turkey, North Korea is that…

That major difference you mentioned means that the leak will be much more likely in the US, company will try to battle the order in court, the government will think twice before issuing a request to a company, and the net result is spyings are several orders of magnitude less often in western countries (I have no data to back up that statement).

> the government will think twice before issuing a request to a company

No, they will definitely not think. Govs/politicians/people in places of power are so arrogant that they will continue the BAU. They will pass another stricter "patriot act/snooper charter", they will issue a tougher gag order, and they will continue as they already do. They will increse the penalties for violators, but they will not stop. The "beast" has a hungry mouth, and it needs that info.

When was the last time we saw someone with power just turning the volume down? Never. Only if they get a hard slap in their faces, they pause for a minute, then they change/re-org and continue in a new method/under new legislation, and life goes on.

Even in an ideal (human) society (I like to use the "Star Trek TNG" in my examples), someone(s) has absolute power into reading private encrypted messages, and we just see a wise Jean-Luc (Sir Patrick Stewart) that does not abuse his right/privilege. But he does have the access.

Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#72

Post by kristopolous »

This is more of the protectionism/mercantilism/nationalism stuff. Sure, there's a B-story for it but it's all seated in revanchist nationalism and a tropish "suspicious foreigners" framing.

If someone made a villainous fu manchu character people would rightly protest it as intolerable. Yet when we actually instrument official government policy based on the same sentiments that the character is based on nobody even reaches for the pearls to clutch.

Once again, fiction and symbols are somehow more important to the political imagination than material reality.

Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#73

Post by saagarjha »

nicbou wrote: post #58
AbrahamParangi wrote: post #24

It is absolutely foolish for any country other than China to allow TikTok within their borders. You might fairly ask whether or not it is equally foolish for non-US countries to use US services. I think that is also a reasonable question, and deserves reflection.

It's not equivalent, but I am certainly wary of having my data handled by US companies that aren't big enough to be scared of GDPR. My phone number and email address spread to many more American marketing lists than European ones, even though I rarely visit. Many of my Facebook ads result from my yearly visit to American cities. I just can't trust American businesses to use my data for the intended purpose only.

Not sure if I should be more concerned about companies too small to be scared of the GDPR, or too big to be scared.

Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#74

Post by saagarjha »

aww_dang wrote: post #70
coliveira wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the beginning of the "tensions" with China people keep pushing the same key: "the government cannot do this, they don't have the authority, the constitution blah". And every time they have been proven wrong, as Trump has established travel bans, restricted visas, put people in concentration camps, imposed tariffs, and who knows what they will do next. People that keep pretending that freedoms are not eroding ar…

>Trump has ... put people in concentration camps Am I missing something here? What are you referencing? I'm not sure I understand.

ICE detention camps, presumably.

Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#75

Post by haecceity »

kristopolous wrote: post #72

This is more of the protectionism/mercantilism/nationalism stuff. Sure, there's a B-story for it but it's all seated in revanchist nationalism and a tropish "suspicious foreigners" framing. If someone made a villainous fu manchu character people would rightly protest it as intolerable. Yet when we actually instrument official government policy based on the same sentiments that the character is based on nobody even re…

> If someone made a villainous fu manchu character people would rightly protest it as intolerable.

Asian stereotypes in media is pretty well tolerated.

Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#76

Post by cthalupa »

vkou wrote: post #64
JoshTriplett wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think someone in China seeing my TikTok videos Leaving aside mechanisms and policies, this is not about seeing videos, this is about the invasive amount of information TikTok collects from devices it runs on.

I don't think someone in China getting my GPS history, or my browsing history, or my mother's phone number is a national security issue, either.

Yours? Probably not.

But it isn't about you. We already know that social media can be, and is, used to track details by nation states on all sorts of things, from the movement of individuals of interest, as well as things such as estimating the population of military bases, discovering military operations, etc.

A foreign government having access to all of that data for a huge portion of the population is 100% a national security risk.

Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#77

Post by apexalpha »

This would be a good moment for the EU to reassess it's dependency on American apps like Whatsapp.

If even the US starts openly blocking apps because they think it would be better for a local competitor to fill this part of the market it should be a wakeup call for the EU.

Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#78

Post by apexalpha »

lightgreen wrote: post #42
sschueller wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Says the USA... "You can trust us, we don't listen on your foreign leaders". Come on, that ship has sailed years ago.

It was US government agencies, not private companies who were spying. So, to clarify, other countries can use US private company services, but should not blindly trust their secret data to the US government.

>It was US government agencies, not private companies who were spying.

Excuse me? I think we've all seen the Snowden and other leaks that essentially prove that all US companies have no problem handing over direct access to the US government.

Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#79

Post by kristopolous »

haecceity wrote: post #75
kristopolous wrote: post #72

This is more of the protectionism/mercantilism/nationalism stuff. Sure, there's a B-story for it but it's all seated in revanchist nationalism and a tropish "suspicious foreigners" framing. If someone made a villainous fu manchu character people would rightly protest it as intolerable. Yet when we actually instrument official government policy based on the same sentiments that the character is based on nobody even re…

> If someone made a villainous fu manchu character people would rightly protest it as intolerable. Asian stereotypes in media is pretty well tolerated.

it's been toned down enormously. Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's as Mr Yunioshi for instance (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb3gdUrIC4Q) this used to be common. The Flintstones, for instance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ8lGDLARME ... it was bad ... really bad.

If something like this was made today and the people somehow ended up in court over it, I'd probably think "well, they saw that coming"

Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#80

Post by apexalpha »

vkou wrote: post #51
rdlecler1 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a national security issue.

To be crude, I don't think someone in China seeing my TikTok videos is a national security issue. This interference with the free market is about politics, not security.

>This interference with the free market is about politics, not security.

Oh you're reading this too literally. When the US government says 'national security issue' what it means is: they want to.

That's it. The list of subjects the US has deemed "National security" over the years to get what it wants is both long and broad.

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