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CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers

blog.expensify.com

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Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers

#71

I wish the author of this piece the very best with his squirrel restaurant franchise. Seriously, what the hell is this guy going on about? The fact that large companies that create huge ecosystems also create cookie-cutter ways of doing things? And this is bad? I've coded in just about everything out there except Haskell and Lisp. I've worked with heavy web-centric systems, distributed systems, P2P systems, and so on…

I don't think its a joke, I think the CEO was genuinely trying to share that he had seen a lot of correlation between folks who programmed in .NET and people who weren't a good fit for his company. I get similar negative vibe when I talk to people who don't use data structures (seriously I interviewed a guy who wrote a frickin' file system that was linear arrays, all the way down) But it doesn't mean there aren't job…

In your reply, I think you touch on an interesting aspect of this: why did it push so many buttons?

I really think it has very little to do with .NET -- I can take .NET or leave it, depending on the nature of my needs.

I think it has much more to do with the smart-ass feeling you get reading it, combined with the fact that, if you're any good at all in the .NET universe, you know better.

That made me think of all the times I've spoken to developers when they just knew that such-and-such was true. And it wasn't. That same snarky attitude, that same over-generalizing, that same use of silliness to try to mask the predjudice.

I wouldn't throw out working with this clown. Who knows? Might be fun. But the attitude is worthy of comment, and, since I have been known to be this way myself, I feel like I can honestly jump in.

But really, who this guy wants or doesn't want, or what his opinions are don't matter that much. The interesting question would be how he deals with realizing he doesn't know so much. That's true for anybody.

Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers

#72
I am a .NET developer, and I am trying to hire excellent, well-rounded .NET developers (hint), and I can tell you that it is non-trivial, specifically because many .NET developers are not particularly well-rounded, nor have the vast majority of them much experience outside the .NET ecosystem, nor more than a basic understanding of the technologies which underly the very powerful abstractions MS has built on top of them.

So I can certainly sympathize that someone who is building something that requires more fundamental knowledge might find .NET to be an effective bunny-filter.

I did stop reading the article when I got to "I'm sure .NET is a dandy language."

Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers

#73
i applied for a job with expensify about 3 months ago. the interviewer asked in what language i wrote a web app from my portfolio. i said c#. he said, and i quote "you can make websites in c#?" he literally had never heard of asp.net. yet is ragging on .net in this blog post.

their office was just 1 room, with 3 guys sitting at a single table. they kept offering me a beer. i guess it was to seem hip, seeing there's no real reason to have a beer during a job interview.

another funny thing from applying is in the coding test they show you how to connect to their api using javascript, but it would never work because of cross domain restrictions. they probably have only tried it over localhost ;p

i wound up not getting the job because i used the kohana mvc framework in the coding test and they 'couldnt understand my code.' i think in all i wrote less than 150 lines of clear, commented code, but they dismissed it outright because i used these things called classes. im sort of glad i didnt get the job, because i got a job paying literally double their offering salary the next day.

Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers

#74

Wow, this is the most personally insulting article I've ever read on HN. I've been programming since I was 8, worked at a successful startup (that used .NET exclusively), and do most of my pet projects on the MS stack. I can't agree with him on any of his examples on why .NET is a bad platform. Backslashes and coordinates systems are trivial. I can't imagine any point for any startup where it's necessary to know the…

hes wrong about the "bytes over the wire" bit anyhow, it's pretty straightforward actually

Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers

#75
Wow. Circa 1980's "Micro$oft" rant from a 2011 CEO. No wonder they're having a hard time hiring.

I think the real moral of this story is: (1) avoid technology religion and it's practitioners, (2) if you're cooking steaks on a gas grill and you see your CTO warming up a dead squirrel over a book of matches, find another job.

Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers

#76

I wish the author of this piece the very best with his squirrel restaurant franchise. Seriously, what the hell is this guy going on about? The fact that large companies that create huge ecosystems also create cookie-cutter ways of doing things? And this is bad? I've coded in just about everything out there except Haskell and Lisp. I've worked with heavy web-centric systems, distributed systems, P2P systems, and so on…

I don't think its a joke, I think the CEO was genuinely trying to share that he had seen a lot of correlation between folks who programmed in .NET and people who weren't a good fit for his company. I get similar negative vibe when I talk to people who don't use data structures (seriously I interviewed a guy who wrote a frickin' file system that was linear arrays, all the way down) But it doesn't mean there aren't job…

> I get similar negative vibe when I talk to people who don't use data structures (seriously I interviewed a guy who wrote a frickin' file system that was linear arrays, all the way down)

An array is a (simple) data structure.

Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers

#77
there's no (well, hardly any) such thing as bad languages, just bad programmers, managers and business people.

this stuff honestly makes me sad for this industry. There are probably 100's of programmers that will now never get to work in the start up world because they list c#/.net etc on there resumes.

Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers

#78
It's great that he posted this.

Most of us may not agree with his philosophy, and have questions about his basic technical and leadership competencies. But right or wrong, he's being very transparent about their hiring and development philosophies.

This is a good thing. It helps his company attract the kind of person that will work well in that environment, and gives clear warning to the rest of us that this is not the place for us, and that we are better of not wasting our time seeking a career there.

Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers

#79
Ok I am going to defend the guy somewhat. He clealy can't be talking about C# or any other CLR languages themselves, that would be just plain dumb and I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I guess he is talking about the various Microsoft supplied frameworks. Within say, Silverlight, it is easy to dip your toe in, get to something like databinding, and go off the rails, trying to bend silverlight to your will to do something that should be easy, and coming away with the impression that what you are doing is totally impossible within silverlight. Then you spend 20 minutes actually thinking instead of in a Microsoft hate fugue state and you see that it actually is easy if you don't fight the framework. So you are like "fuck you .net I want to do it my way!"

But that is the nature of frameworks, not endemic to .net.

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