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Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

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Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#71

Post by tasuki »

pjc50 wrote: post #60
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be like... extra retarded for saying this but... with 153k cases in Florida and 3.5k deaths (2.3%), is it really that bad? I can only imagine how many hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Florida citizens have it/have had it and had no symptoms and aren't getting tested (which would drive the death percentage down something fierce). I feel like I have a higher chance of dying driving down the street. Am…

9/11 killed about 3k Americans, was it really that bad?

For the people killed and their relatives and friends? Yes, for sure.

Considering all the suffering going on in the world? No, not at all.

There was a huge overreaction to 9/11 in the US which caused much more suffering than the event itself.

Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#72

Post by luckylion »

JohnBooty wrote: post #40
atmosx wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A digital platform with some sort of interaction (clap, reactions, emojis, live chat with some sort of censorship) might adjust public spectacles to the new age.

It kind of has already -- Twitch, etc -- but whatever it evolves into online seems unlikely to support expensive and lavishly budgeted spectacles like Cirque. I feel certain live performances and sports with physically-present audiences will return, as that experience seems to fill some kind of deep-seated human need. (One I certainly share) But I increasingly fear that COVID-19 represents something like an asteroid-…

I share your belief that it will change a lot, but I'm less fearful about it. I believe that quite a bit of traditions and "how we do things" are mostly there because that's how it was done, not because they are still what people want. A major disruption makes that more obvious and asks the question whether we still want it the way it was before.

Maybe we don't want e.g. theaters any more. They've had declining audiences for quite a while and are, at least over here, heavily subsidized by the government. That money could also be used on other things that more people care for. Starting anew isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#73

Post by pcl »

m0zg wrote: post #70
prostoalex wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s just one of the approaches, another one is counting excess deaths - delta between predicted and actual mortality rates. It normalizes against external factors, such as poor testing infrastructure or (in some countries) government pressure to keep the numbers low. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking...

Could it be that a good fraction of those "excess deaths" is caused by people choosing not to seek (or being unable to get) medical help with the conditions they already have? 2.65 million people die in the US in an average year in total, most of things like cancer or heart disease. Some of those things you can treat, some you can't nowadays, because procedures are "elective" and hospitals don't do them.

Yes, and there is a good argument that such deaths are COVID-related, even though the virus itself didn’t infect the person. This is one of the reasons that “excess deaths” is a compelling measure.

Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#74

Post by [deleted] »

m0zg wrote: post #30
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be like... extra retarded for saying this but... with 153k cases in Florida and 3.5k deaths (2.3%), is it really that bad? I can only imagine how many hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Florida citizens have it/have had it and had no symptoms and aren't getting tested (which would drive the death percentage down something fierce). I feel like I have a higher chance of dying driving down the street. Am…

> with 153k cases in Florida and 3.5k deaths (2.3%), is it really that bad? You don't even know if it's 3.5K deaths _due to_ COVID in the first place. The way US counts the deaths from this is "unique" in that if someone had COVID when they died, but they did not die _from_ COVID, they're still counted as a COVID death. That's why countries like Russia with much less formidable healthcare systems have "lower" fatalit…

[deleted]

Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#75

Post by jacquesm »

chrischen wrote: post #53
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #12

The great depression in live performances is truly a global tragedy. If you think restaurants and barbershops have it bad, imagine theaters. For most of them it's basically impossible to do social distancing and remain financially solvent. People may be itching to go out to eat and get a haircut, but it will be a long time before people are going to pack in to an opera house. Couple that with the fact that audiences…

Why can't they just pause and resume (and the employees get unemployment benefits)?

Because fixed costs such as building rent, maintenance and such will continue. Those are substantial amounts for any venue of note.

Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#76

Post by jacquesm »

pjc50 wrote: post #60
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be like... extra retarded for saying this but... with 153k cases in Florida and 3.5k deaths (2.3%), is it really that bad? I can only imagine how many hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Florida citizens have it/have had it and had no symptoms and aren't getting tested (which would drive the death percentage down something fierce). I feel like I have a higher chance of dying driving down the street. Am…

9/11 killed about 3k Americans, was it really that bad?

If you were an Iraqi, yes, it was really that bad.

Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#77

Post by fredophile »

m0zg wrote: post #70
prostoalex wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s just one of the approaches, another one is counting excess deaths - delta between predicted and actual mortality rates. It normalizes against external factors, such as poor testing infrastructure or (in some countries) government pressure to keep the numbers low. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking...

Could it be that a good fraction of those "excess deaths" is caused by people choosing not to seek (or being unable to get) medical help with the conditions they already have? 2.65 million people die in the US in an average year in total, most of things like cancer or heart disease. Some of those things you can treat, some you can't nowadays, because procedures are "elective" and hospitals don't do them.

If you won't or can't get medical care due to covid and die from your lack of medical care I'd say it's fair to say that you died because of covid.

Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#78

Post by stagethrowaway »

chrischen wrote: post #53
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #12

The great depression in live performances is truly a global tragedy. If you think restaurants and barbershops have it bad, imagine theaters. For most of them it's basically impossible to do social distancing and remain financially solvent. People may be itching to go out to eat and get a haircut, but it will be a long time before people are going to pack in to an opera house. Couple that with the fact that audiences…

Why can't they just pause and resume (and the employees get unemployment benefits)?

Stagehand here. I still haven’t received a penny of unemployment insurance. The state is not equipped to deal with >1M people filing every week. I have friends who are mistakenly being accused of fraud and being asked to repay what they’ve received so far. UI is a nightmare right now.

Even if I could live for a year or two on 40% of my previous salary (much closer to minimum wage than it is to tech salaries), and the government approved extensions to allow UI to be paid for that long (it’s not), our employers still have other bills to pay. They need to pay rent and insurance on the theatre, and the scene shop, and the warehouse full of sets and props and costumes. Equipment needs regular maintenance and inspections. Consumables will expire. It will cost more when we start up again.

There are lots of other pieces in the live entertainment system. We can’t just go back to work if the other businesses we rely on have gone bust in the meantime. Want stagehands to work through the night? You’ll need 24/7 catering. Want stage lights? You’ll need rental companies. Want equipment to be serviced? And on and on.

Finally, I know many people are taking this opportunity to retire, or change careers. Nobody is joining the industry right now. All the classes and certifications I was scheduled for in the past 6 months have been cancelled. We’ll have a lack of skilled workers when we do get back to work.

It will take many years, after a vaccine is created, for this industry to recover.

Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#80

Post by gadders »

prostoalex wrote: post #59
m0zg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with 153k cases in Florida and 3.5k deaths (2.3%), is it really that bad? You don't even know if it's 3.5K deaths _due to_ COVID in the first place. The way US counts the deaths from this is "unique" in that if someone had COVID when they died, but they did not die _from_ COVID, they're still counted as a COVID death. That's why countries like Russia with much less formidable healthcare systems have "lower" fatalit…

That’s just one of the approaches, another one is counting excess deaths - delta between predicted and actual mortality rates. It normalizes against external factors, such as poor testing infrastructure or (in some countries) government pressure to keep the numbers low. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking...

The excess deaths have just been shifted earlier in the year, as a large part of the people that die from Coronoa would have died within a year anyway. Probably towards the end of the year the excess deaths will dip below the average.
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