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People have stopped going to the doctor and most seem fine

nytimes.com

71–76 of 76 posts

Re: People have stopped going to the doctor and most seem fine

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those appointments should only occur if there's an issue that requires new dosing or a change of medication. But isn’t that a little bit of Monday morning quarter backing? In other words how does a doctor know if a therapy/Rx needs to be modified for a chronic condition without a doctor visit and in many cases blood work? In fact a 6 month therapy for a chronic condition would suggest The doctor has extreme confide…

Things like asthma inhalers don't normally require bloodwork. Just a quick Q&A, which could be done less expensively over the phone, if it's even really necessary. Or, annually instead of bi-annually.

Even in the case of asthma, I think a doctor would hopefully not treat it like cookie cutter Health care. Surely there are standards and best practices, but then there is also the actual practice of medicine.

Standards might suggest 1 year is fine, but he Generally a doctor might want to see young (Kids) and old patients more often than a otherwise healthy adult, perhaps the doctor has reason to belief seasonal allergies/pollen may be effecting patients more in a given year, and (not to give doctors to much credit)again the idea the doctor has concerns with a given patient’s track record of adherence Issues and/or medication related hospitalizations.

Re: People have stopped going to the doctor and most seem fine

#72
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> she has a woman doctor that will only accept women and children patients; my male doctor only accepts male patients Is that legal?

> Is that legal? IIRC, gynecologists aren't even allowed to treat men, even though they're most qualified to treat certain diseases/problems that males can have (just far more rarely than women). I don't remember the specifics, though.

Is this true? It seems like a decision that was in effect for less than three months only in the US back in 2013 and it was quickly reversed. Has this been reinstated since?

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/why-can-t-gynaecologists-...

Re: People have stopped going to the doctor and most seem fine

#73
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm. 'Getting scared' vs 'missing a cancer and dying'. There's a disparity in the cost of those two false results. I know which side I'm on.

22% unnecessary surgeries following mammograms[1] is not just 'getting scared' these are invasive surgeries with real risks. Are you strawmanning my point or just being hyperbolic? Again, I ask, hoping for a less flippant answer; if we spend money, time, effort on increasing mammograms that doesn't actually improve overall mortality and has it's own risks, should we still do it? I'm not saying this because I think we…

That seems exaggerated - the 'unnecessary surgeries' are biopsies, right? Hardly a life-threatening procedure. That sounds hyperbolic too?

This 20-year-old study shows that mammograms are matched by excellent screening programs in Canada. Is that the choice being made today? The screening programs in Canada were discontinued. Is the real choice now between mammograms and nothing? I didn't understand that development at all.

In the last 10 years, there's been a decrease in mortality by 25% or better. That's the good news today. And its all attributed to early detection. Clearly the most important factor in survival.

I think 20-year-old data is not the greatest basis for an informed choice on this subject. E.g. MRIs became common after that study was over. The world has changed, a lot, since then.

Re: People have stopped going to the doctor and most seem fine

#74
post #7

If I could get antibiotics for strep or sinus infections without going to them, I'd pretty much never go. Those visits are really dumb because I already know what's wrong, and just need them to say "yep, it's the thing you already knew it was, here's a prescription and a bill for doing nothing useful" ... actually on reflection already knowing what's wrong and just needing a doctor to say it so treatment can proceed…

>sinus infections

I previously had sinus infections all the time. I also took allergy pills every day. Now I don't.

I discovered 'sinus rinsing', you get a sinus rinse bottle (such as name brand NeilMed), a cup of distilled water, an appropriate amount of sea-salt, and microwave for x seconds (30-40).

This solves mold induced migraines, stuffy sinus from tree and grass allergy, and headaches from breathing pollution.

If you rolled around in grass and had itchy skin - you would shower and wash. Contrasted with breathing tree pollen all day - then taking a pharmaceutical anti-histamine.

Re: People have stopped going to the doctor and most seem fine

#75
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

22% unnecessary surgeries following mammograms[1] is not just 'getting scared' these are invasive surgeries with real risks. Are you strawmanning my point or just being hyperbolic? Again, I ask, hoping for a less flippant answer; if we spend money, time, effort on increasing mammograms that doesn't actually improve overall mortality and has it's own risks, should we still do it? I'm not saying this because I think we…

That seems exaggerated - the 'unnecessary surgeries' are biopsies, right? Hardly a life-threatening procedure. That sounds hyperbolic too? This 20-year-old study shows that mammograms are matched by excellent screening programs in Canada. Is that the choice being made today? The screening programs in Canada were discontinued. Is the real choice now between mammograms and nothing? I didn't understand that development…

It was published in Feburary 2014.

I'm not intentionally trying to sound hyperbolic. Are you? They are literally classified as invasive procedures. It is by definition unnecessary. There are going to be false-positives in these screenings and these false-positives can be harmful. Early detection + cancer = good. Early detection + no cancer = bad. So we must balance these two. I agree detecting cancer early is a good thing, but that's not what I was saying.

What's the deal, do you think there's no false positives, do you think over detection has no harms?

If you want something more recent, here's one published February 2020:

"...A further contributor is overdiagnosis, or the diagnosis of cancer in people who would never have experienced symptoms or harm had the cancer remained undetected and untreated. Overdiagnosis of certain screen‐detected cancers is common including 20–50% of prostate cancer and 11–19% of breast cancer diagnoses.

Cancer can also be overdiagnosed outside screening programs. Overdiagnosis of thyroid cancer is attributable to incidental detection during investigations of unrelated problems; overdiagnosis of renal cancer and melanoma is less well investigated.

Overdiagnosis is important because of the associated iatrogenic harms and costs. Harms include the psychosocial impact of unnecessary cancer diagnoses, such as the increased suicide risk for men after being diagnosed with prostate cancer. Cancer treatments such as surgery, radiotherapy, endocrine therapy, and chemotherapy can cause physical harm, but the risks are considered acceptable if diagnosis is appropriate. When someone is unnecessarily diagnosed with cancer, however, they can only be harmed by treatment, not helped."

...

"Overdiagnosis of breast cancers is largely attributable to the national screening program, that of prostate cancers and melanoma to opportunistic but extensive screening in Australia. Renal cancer overdiagnosis appears to be largely linked with cancers detected as incidental findings during abdominal imaging for an unrelated reason (incidentalomas). Overdiagnosis of thyroid cancer is related to both incidentalomas and to excessive investigation of thyroid function test abnormalities"

https://www.mja.com.au/system/files/issues/212_04/mja250455....

Re: People have stopped going to the doctor and most seem fine

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who rarely goes to the doctor (unless it's very serious) and when he does, does extensive "internet research" of his symptoms beforehand to come in knowledgable, I agree that for me, GPs gatekeeping medicine is unnecessary. BUUUUT, I have a family friend who is basically a hypochondriac. She goes to the doctor ridiculously frequently, and is always trying to convince them (and everyone else who will listen…

Counterpoint: What if she's not faking it? There's conditions like endometriosis that are horribly underdiagnosed and often dismissed as IBS; the average diagnosis takes seven years. Recently a 40-some year old died after being dismissed for years; her abdomen was riddled with endo tissue and adhesions, likely killing her in the end.

There is no easy way to solve the problem of mis- or un-diagnosis, except better training, better awareness and hopefully better diagnostic techniques
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