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What Microsoft got right about power users, but not quite

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Re: What Microsoft got right about power users, but not quite

#71

Post by josteink »

fetbaffe wrote: post #33
kfk wrote: post #29

We are 30+ years and Windows Task Scheduler is still broken. Compare that to simple .txt files to schedule anything you need in Linux. Windows took the UI path for users and that's OK, but most of Power users are still much better off with text files and simple utilities (like crontab) that work. This type of ecosystem is completely broken on Windows, I don't think it can be fixed, it is too much of a paradigm shift.…

How is Windows Task Scheduler broken?

> How is Windows Task Scheduler broken?

Fundamentally.

Try to schedule a simple script to run once an hour, while the user is logged in. No other conditions. Nothing complex.

Wait an hour and wait to see one window pop open running your script.

Wait one work-day. Work on your machine. Observe 10+ executions of that script, in parallel, on the mark the script was scheduled to run once.

Watch this get worse every day, until reboot. And then it slowly starts collapsing on itself again.

Not even this simple use-case works. It’s just unbelievably broken.

Re: What Microsoft got right about power users, but not quite

#72

Post by dgellow »

craftinator wrote: post #53
dgellow wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basic Features in separate packages means, many users will never use them, because they don't know they exist. If people want/need to do something such as bulk renaming, they can online search for it, as they do for everything else, which will tell them they can install a package from the windows store. Doesn’t seem that crazy to me as an expectation from end users. Also, I don’t think that when Microsoft says “pow…

> If people want/need to do something such as bulk renaming, they can online search for it, as they do for everything else, which will tell them they can install a package from the windows store. Or they'll find some sketchy exe file, and here comes the malware! Windows is really broken in terms of package distribution, and requiring people to go online and search for something so simple is hassle, dangerous, and dec…

Cortana has been moved to a separate package available from Windows Store as of the May update of this year (the mainstream release is in two days IIRC). There are a lot of benefits for Microsoft to keep a base install and let users add what they want from the Windows Store.

Re: What Microsoft got right about power users, but not quite

#74

Post by dleslie »

munchbunny wrote: post #58
dleslie wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched from WSL2 back to WSL1 because the git action times on the NTFS shared drive were _minutes_ long in WSL2. I didn't use WSL2 for too long and so I wonder: are processes in WSL2 manageable by Task Manager and Windows Defender as in WSL1? That integration with Windows tooling made WSL1 killer for deploying tools to non-programmers; give them a powershell script and they can run the app and manage it in a fami…

are processes in WSL2 manageable by Task Manager and Windows Defender as in WSL1? I haven't tried (just installed Windows 10 v1909 last night) but I don't think so, given that WSL2 sits in a VM, which WSL1 didn't. I liked WSL1, but it had a lot of the same drawbacks that Cygwin had, which was that Windows and Linux are different enough under the hood that you start running into issues with file system performance and…

Putting the shared files inside the Linux instance is a non-starter for me.

Re: What Microsoft got right about power users, but not quite

#75

Post by fetbaffe »

amw wrote: post #48
fetbaffe wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Windows Task Scheduler broken?

Can't bulk-kill processes, for one. Not searchable, for two.

Haven't used it in a long time, but looking at it now, the GUI is definitely clunky and those features are missing.

Wasn't there another GUI during the Windows XP days?

Re: What Microsoft got right about power users, but not quite

#76

Post by munchbunny »

dleslie wrote: post #74
munchbunny wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are processes in WSL2 manageable by Task Manager and Windows Defender as in WSL1? I haven't tried (just installed Windows 10 v1909 last night) but I don't think so, given that WSL2 sits in a VM, which WSL1 didn't. I liked WSL1, but it had a lot of the same drawbacks that Cygwin had, which was that Windows and Linux are different enough under the hood that you start running into issues with file system performance and…

Putting the shared files inside the Linux instance is a non-starter for me.

Putting the shared files inside the Linux instance is a non-starter for me.

What requirement do you have that has to be managed without going over to the Linux side of the system?

Re: What Microsoft got right about power users, but not quite

#77

Post by WalterGR »

Grumbledour wrote: post #16

I actually don't get Powertoys at all. They provide basic functionality I would not even class as for power users. Yeah, they are nice, they were nice in win95. Why do I need a separate Program 25 years later to rebind some keys or switch windows, yet every new win10 version tinkers with cortana? People say it would add "bloat", but somehow basic functionality beneficial to many users is bloat while candy crush and x…

If a feature is missing from Windows it’s a bad thing, it should be in the default installation because it’s not bloat, and users are viewed as helpless to remedy the issue.

If a feature is missing from MacOS or Linux it’s a good thing, it was rightly left out of the default installation to avoid bloat, and users are viewed as empowered to install software themselves.

Can’t win.

Re: What Microsoft got right about power users, but not quite

#78

Post by dleslie »

munchbunny wrote: post #76
dleslie wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting the shared files inside the Linux instance is a non-starter for me.

Putting the shared files inside the Linux instance is a non-starter for me. What requirement do you have that has to be managed without going over to the Linux side of the system?

Unity and its suite of tools. Anything that slows access to disk IO can add significant time to my large-project build turnaround.

Re: What Microsoft got right about power users, but not quite

#79

Post by aeronaute »

endogui wrote: post #60
Grumbledour wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic Features in separate packages means, many users will never use them, because they don't know they exist. Bulk renaming files for example is not something only power users do, it is something only power users can do because it just does not exist and/or is not discoverable for a normal user. And also as a power user, it is annoying to find a program for every basic thing the system should be able to do. On the o…

I can't be the only user who installs Cygwin just so that I can move files around, calculate hashes of files, and grep with regular expressions. Simple things Windows users don't get out of the box.

I want to challenge your last statement that these things aren't available to Windows users out of the box. Are you certain of that?

- Move files: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/microsoft...

- File hashes: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/microsoft...

- Grep: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/microsoft...

Re: What Microsoft got right about power users, but not quite

#80

Post by jve »

pwdisswordfish2 wrote: post #26
Grumbledour wrote: post #16

I actually don't get Powertoys at all. They provide basic functionality I would not even class as for power users. Yeah, they are nice, they were nice in win95. Why do I need a separate Program 25 years later to rebind some keys or switch windows, yet every new win10 version tinkers with cortana? People say it would add "bloat", but somehow basic functionality beneficial to many users is bloat while candy crush and x…

It is not weird at all once you realise who Microsoft's management wants as its customers. The business people at MS really do not expect nor want customers to be fiddling around with technical stuff. They want customers to see MS as the one who can solve all problems. The business people at Microsoft prefer non-technical customers. Technically-minded customers are not the ideal customers for Microsoft. A great examp…

Nonsense. Different products (from MS) are for different people.

If it was true what you are telling, doubt they woild provide loads of diagnostic tools for windows, debugging tools, kernel symbols, performance tools, etc.

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